On today’s podcast, I chat with two brilliant IFS lead trainers, Pam Krause and Crystal Jones. We learn about their journeys to becoming IFS lead trainers, the evolution of the model's cultural awareness and inclusivity, and what it’s been like to co-lead the newly updated IFS Online Circle together. We also dip our toes into a little controversy—should we skip the 6Fs?
I loved hearing from them what it means to stay grounded in the core of the model while continuing to expand and evolve with care, community, and curiosity.
“The core of the model has not changed at all.” Pam and Crystal reflect on how the IFS model has stayed steady while the perspectives, voices, and applications have continued to expand.
How do different cultures experience Self Energy? What happens when we listen for joy, dance, chi, and loyalty as expressions of Self?
How the model is evolving as more identities enter the space, adding richness and context.
The 6 F’s: should we still teach them? Pam and Crystal give context, clarity, and some new language around how and why the F’s are helpful—especially for beginners.
How the model teaches the steps to reach clients’ protectors.
We also explore mentoring, teaching, and the beautiful full-circle (pun intended!) relationship Pam and Crystal have developed through years of working together.
“People are saying how they want to see themselves in the model, right? They want to see how it applies to them. And if we are not aware of our clients' identities, then we might miss it if we're looking for the eight C’s.” – Crystal Jones
📺 Check out my extended video interview with Crystal and Pam over on Substack.
About the Guests:
Crystal R. Jones is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Lead IFS-I Trainer who passionately shares the healing essence of the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model worldwide. She is known for her embodied compassion, relatability, and heart-led approach to this transformative work. Crystal is deeply dedicated to creating safe, affirming spaces for marginalized communities—particularly Black women and women of color—where they can feel connected, seen, heard, and valued as they embark on their healing journeys, both individually and collectively. With a fervent commitment to equity and accessibility, Crystal teaches the IFS model in a way that speaks to the global majority, ensuring its adaptability, inclusivity, and relevance across diverse populations.
Pamela Krause, MSW, LCSW, is a Certified IFS Therapist who began her journey with IFS in 1998. She is a Senior Lead Trainer for the Internal Family Systems Institute, where she created and ran two Leadership Training Programs in addition to teaching all three levels of trainings. Her sub-specialty is adapting the IFS model for adolescents and younger children, a topic which she developed a Level 2 training program in partnership with Carmen Jimenez-Pride.
Episode Sponsor: IFS Institute
IFS Institute is now enrolling for the ALL-new IFS Online Circle program, a 6-month foundational course for professionals looking to provide an IFS lens to their practice. This updated and enhanced program offers fresh insights, expanded demonstrations, and deeper experiential exercises, all led by two of the Institute's top trainers, Pam Krause and Crystal Jones.
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Jeff Schrum co-produces The One Inside. He’s a writer and IFS Level 2 practitioner who specializes in helping therapists create with clarity and confidence.
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Tammy is grateful for Jack Reardon who created music for the podcast. Jack is a graduate of Derek Scott’s IFS Stepping Stones Program.
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