You can listen wherever you get your podcasts or check out the fully edited transcript of our interview at the bottom of this post.
In this episode of The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, Michaeleen Doucleff and I talk about her new book Dopamine Kids: A Science-Based Plan to Rewire Your Childâs Brain and Take Youâre your Family in the Age of Screens and Ultraprocessed Foods. Michaeleenâs position is not that screens and ultra-processed food are âbad.â Rather, Michaeleen explains how they can take the place of things that truly bring us joy and pleasure, leaving us with an empty feeling of "what's next?" and an endless cycle of wanting. We focus on how dopamine has been misunderstood and how it actually works, how magnets like screens and ultraprocessed foods keep us stuck, and small changes you can make to start shifting things in your home.
Know someone who might appreciate this episode? Share it with them!
And if you love the podcast, FREE ways to help us out:1- Rate and review the podcast in your podcast player app
2- âLikeâ this post by tapping the heart icon â„ïž
3- Share this with a friend. THANK YOU!
We talk about:
* 00:00 Introduction to Dopamine Kids and why our understanding of dopamine is outdated
* 02:15 Michaeleenâs journey from NPR science journalist to parenting author
* 05:00 Dopamine isnât pleasureâitâs wanting: the neuroscience that changes everything
* 07:20 Why kids say theyâd rather play with friends than be on screens
* 08:00 The difference between dopamine, serotonin, and real satisfaction
* 13:30 How apps and ultra-processed foods hijack the brainâs reward system
* 16:45 Why endless scrolling never feels satisfying
* 18:30 âBottomlessnessââone of the biggest design tricks keeping us hooked
* 20:30 Why we want activities for our kids with a clear purpose and a clear endpoint
* 22:00 The veggie straw experiment that changed Michaeleenâs thinking about food
* 26:50 Magnets and cues: how screens become automatic habits
* 32:00 Why removing screens isnât enoughâyou have to replace them
* 33:30 Helping kids meet their real need for adventure and autonomy
* 36:00 Small, permanent changes vs. temporary screen detoxes
* 37:30 Why the car is a great place to start reducing screens
* 38:00 Is reducing screens really more work?
* 40:15 Why laws and regulations havenât caught up with technology
* 43:00 Why this isnât a willpower problem
* 46:30 Can kids ever use screens in moderation?
* 49:00 Paid video games vs. free games
* 51:30 This isnât about screens being âbadâ
* 53:00 Helping kids gradually learn to use technology well
* 54:00 School Chromebooks and why parents have more influence than they realize
* 58:00 Advice Michaeleen would give her younger parenting self
* 1:00:00 Why kids have to experience offline joy before theyâll want it
* 1:01:00 Sarahâs client who removed the TVâand what happened next
* 1:02:30 Final thoughts and where to find Michaeleen
Resources mentioned in this episode:
* Dopamine Kids: A Science-Based Plan to Rewire Your Childâs Brain and Take Youâre your Family in the Age of Screens and Ultraprocessed Foods
* How to Stop Fighting About Video Games with Scott Novis
* The Peaceful Parenting Membership
Connect with Sarah Rosensweet:
* YouTube
* Website
* Book a short consult or coaching session call
xx Sarah and Corey
Your peaceful parenting team- click here for a free short consult or a coaching session
Visit our website for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more!
>> Please support us!!! Please consider becoming a supporter to help support our free content, including The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, our free parenting support Facebook group, and our weekly parenting emails, âWeekend Reflectionsâ and âWeekend Supportâ - plus our Flourish With Your Complex Child Summit (coming back in the fall for the 3rd year!) All of this free support for you takes a lot of time and energy from me and my team. If it has been helpful or meaningful for you, your support would help us to continue to provide support for free, for you and for others.
In addition to knowing you are supporting our mission to support parents and children, you get the podcast ad free and access to a monthly âask me anythingâ session.
Sarah: Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Peaceful Parenting Podcast.
Todayâs guest is journalist Michaeleen Doucleff. She is the author of the book Hunt, Gather, Parent and now has a new book out called Dopamine Kids: A Science-Based Plan to Rewire Your Childâs Brain and Take Back Your Family in the Age of Screens and Ultra-Processed Food.
Michaeleenâs first book is one of our favorite parenting books, and now we can add this one to the list. She walks us through how screens and ultra-processed food hook us and keep our brains stuck in a hijacked wanting cycle without giving us actual rewards and pleasure.
We eventually get around to discussing this, but I want to stress right here at the beginning that Michaeleen isnât saying that screens and ultra-processed food are evil or that they have no place in our lives. Rather, they can take the place of things that truly bring us joy and pleasure, leaving us with an empty feeling of âwhatâs next?â and an endless cycle of wanting.
I learned so much from this book. Iâd been wanting to make some changes in my own life with my relationship with my phone, and this book helped me understand why it was so hard and what I could do. A hint: as it turns out, we donât understand dopamine correctly at all. Our cultural shorthand about what dopamine is and what role it plays in the motivation and pleasure cycle is totally outdated.
If youâre interested in making some positive shifts in your childâs life, in your family, and in your own life, youâre going to love this interview and Michaeleenâs book.
If you like this episode, please share it with a friend so more parents can learn about peaceful parenting. If youâre a fan of the podcast, you can help us out not only by sharing it, but by leaving a review and a five-star rating in your podcast player app. While youâre there, donât forget to follow the show so you donât miss an episode.
If youâd like to support us even more, you can become a supporter on Substack to help us offset the cost of making the show. Weâll put a link in the show notes.
Letâs meet Michaeleen. I hope you enjoy this conversation and get as much out of her insights as I did.
Sarah: Hi, Michaeleen. Welcome back to the podcast.
Michaeleen: Thank you so much for having me.
Sarah: When we had you on a few years ago to talk about your first parenting book, Hunt, Gather, Parentâweâll link to it in the show notesâit ended up being one of our favorite podcasts out of the 200-some episodes weâve done. Iâm so excited to have you back to talk about your new book.
Michaeleen: Thank you so much. Thatâs so nice. Itâs an honor to come back.
Sarah: Iâm so happy to have you. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Michaeleen: I wasâor I still amâa science journalist. Iâve been one now for about 16 years, and I spent 13 or 14 years as a radio correspondent at NPR. Iâm still there covering childrenâs health, global health, neuroscience, and psychology.
Before that, I was trained as a chemist. I have a PhD in chemistry.
Five years ago, I wrote the parenting book Hunt, Gather, Parent, and I had no idea Iâd ever become a parenting expert. That definitely wasnât on my life bingo card.
When I had my daughter Rosie almost 11 years ago, I had no clue what I was doing. It just seemed like an impossible task. Then I started studying parenting around the world, and I realized there was an easier way to do things. Thatâs what Hunt, Gather, Parent is about.
More recently, about six years ago, I was really trying to fix my own screen problemâmy own addiction to my phone. I was so obsessed with it. As I investigated neuroscience, psychology, and behavioral psychology, I started to realize, âOh gosh, weâre really getting a lot of things wrong when it comes to screens and our kids.â
That led me to write this next book, DâŠ