In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, listeners are treated to a dynamic conversation with Dr. Jamarco Clark and Dr. Jason Lynch, co-editors of a special 2025 edition of the Journal of Education of Human Resources. Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, this episode delves into critical issues facing student affairs professionals, shining a spotlight on well-being, workplace culture, and the evolving definition of professionalism in higher education.
One of the podcast's most engaging themes is the importance of workplace well-being—not just for students, but for the professionals charged with supporting them. Dr. Jamarco Clark emphasizes the need for a staff-centered, student-focused approach, arguing that when staff are empowered and cared for, student success naturally follows. Both speakers reflect on lessons learned during the COVID-19 era, noting that while much research emerged in response to pandemic challenges, the issues of burnout, compassion fatigue, and the complexities of balancing personal and professional boundaries remain urgent and relevant.
The episode explores the multi-generational workforce in student affairs, discussing how differing views on professionalism and workplace expectations can impact collaboration and staff satisfaction. Dr. Jason Lynch and Dr. Jamarco Clark highlight how traditional concepts of professionalism—often based largely on appearance—are being re-examined, making room for more inclusive and flexible environments where effectiveness takes precedence over simply being "busy."
Remote and hybrid work also come up as hot topics, with the guests candidly sharing their personal experiences navigating both the positives and challenges of work-from-home arrangements. Their stories underline the importance of trust, flexibility, and recognizing the diverse needs of staff—especially when responding to student crises and managing cyclical job demands.
What emerges is a clear call for leaders in student affairs to proactively cultivate psychological safety within their divisions, to recognize staff contributions, and to intentionally prepare the next generation of practitioners. The dialogue is brimming with actionable ideas for supervisors, from empowering staff to take ownership of divisional projects, to focusing more on mentorship and less on micro-management.
Whether you're a seasoned professional or new to student affairs, this episode offers fresh perspectives and practical strategies for enhancing your own well-being and advancing your career. Tune in to be inspired, challenged, and reminded that supporting staff is not just good management—it's essential for the success of our students.
Ready to rethink your approach to student affairs? Listen to the full episode and join the conversation on the future of the profession!
TRANSCTIPT
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, where today we're going to be talking to 2 authors who helped co-edit a special edition of a journal focusing on the wellbeing of student affairs professionals in the workplace. Our first guest is Dr. Jamarco Clark, who serves as the Vice President for Student Affairs at Wichita State University, where he works collaboratively across campus to strengthen the student experience and position student affairs as a strategic partner in student success.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:51]:
Prior to joining Wichita State, Dr. Clark served as Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at the University of Illinois Springfield. He also is an active scholar and graduate faculty member teaching in doctoral and master's programs in higher education leadership. His scholarship focuses on workplace wellbeing, trauma-informed supervision, and the experiences of student affairs professionals with particular attention to how institutions support the people who support students. Clark is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity and has been appointed by governors in both Illinois and Iowa to statewide service commissions where he contributed to efforts advancing civic engagement, volunteerism, and community service. Dr. Clark earned his Ed.D. from the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse, a master's degree in strategic leadership from Mount Mercy University, and a bachelor's degree in educational foundations from Iowa Wesleyan University.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:35]:
Our second guest is Dr. Jason Lynch, who is a passionate educator and innovative scholar-practitioner. He's a native North Carolinian and first-generation college student growing up in Whiteville, a small rural town in the southeastern region of the state. His scholarship and teaching are informed by his practical experience in functional areas, including housing and residence life, student conduct, leadership development, multicultural affairs, fraternity and sorority life, assessment and evaluation, and statewide system policy and governance. He is committed to equipping educators and educational leaders with the tools to provide transformational learning opportunities for students while also fostering the growth and wellbeing of staff, faculty, and leadership. His research interests explore the nature and impact of trauma within educational contexts, with a specific focus on secondary traumatic stress, organizational trauma, and trauma-informed leadership in postsecondary education. He's held multiple leadership roles, including founding executive editor for the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice editorial board and co-editor of the Trauma-Informed Practice in Higher Education published by Bloomsbury. Welcome to SA Voices, Jamarco.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:02:35]:
Hello. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:37]:
And hello, Jason. Glad to have you on the show.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:02:39]:
I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:42]:
And today we are here talking, minus one of your co-editors, about an edition that happened in January of 2025 of the Journal of Education of Human Resources. And it was a special edition on workplace wellbeing and the student affairs professional, which just fits so nicely with our theme this season of enhancing the wellbeing and career pathways of student affairs professionals. Could not pass up this opportunity to talk to you all about this incredible curated volume of research that I don't know that a lot of student affairs practitioners check out this journal. So looking forward to digging into that. But before we get started with all of the goodness of the journal articles, we'd love to get to know you a little bit more. So, Jamarco, let's start with you. How did you get to your current seat?
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:03:22]:
Absolutely. So I'm Jamarco Clark. I'm currently the Vice President for Student Affairs at Wichita State University. At the time of taping, been here for about 2 months. And so it's been a very busy start to fall semester. Prior to this role, I was at the University of Illinois Springfield as the Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs and just was kind of in a space of we had accomplished some good work at UIS and knew that I'd like to get to a larger school. And Wichita State was one that checked a lot of boxes for me as it relates to what the university stands for, the way that access is created for students. And so, get into the process and, and really saw it as a place where I could see myself contributing to the great work that was happening and, and ultimately help enhance both the student and staff experience.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]:
And Jason, how about you? How did you get to your current seat?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:04:07]:
Well, so I'm proud to say this is the longest position I've been in. So, I started as a faculty member at App State in fall 2020. And prior to that, I spent about a decade as a student affairs practitioner, primarily in residence life roles. But as of this semester, I'm the new program director for our HESA program at Appalachian State. I help with curriculum and admissions and all that sort of stuff. My primary bread and butter is studying issues around traumatic stress in college environments, as well as on issues of workplace wellbeing. And all of it's kind of grounded in my professional experience prior to becoming a faculty member.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:43]:
I love the theory to practice elements that you two were able to collaborate forward on with one of you being a practitioner and one of you being in the faculty. We also have a 3rd co-editor in this edition, Dr. Tammy Samuels. Would one of you like to introduce a little bit about her?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:04:56]:
Yeah, definitely. So Tammy is a good friend. She and I used to work together at the UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School. Prior to that, really, she was at Rutgers University, and a lot of her career path deals with career advising. But she recently graduated with her doctorate from USC and is really passionate about creating sustainable work environments. Her specialty area is kind And how did the 3 of you come together and decide you wanted to take on this project? Yeah, so I think that all 3 of us have this shared interest, and I think that there was a call for special topic issues in this particular journal. And I think that whenever— I forgot, Jamarco, if we had already been collaborating on something, but it just was sort of serendipitous in that like all 3 of us were doing some similar work and we're friends and we're like, well, we'll submit some stuff.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:05:46]:
But yeah, what Jason said, I think it's really important to recognize that this is a What Jason won't share is that Jason has done a phenomenal job of pulling in higher education, K-12 educators who are interested in this trauma work as it relates to looking at the wellbeing of the professionals. And so Jason has done a wonderful job of pulling folks together, and that's ultimately what led to it, right? He's, he's been a big name in the space as it relates to the work in the field. And so that opportunity came about and Jason pulled us together and we were able to work on this.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:13]:
So thinking about this journal, I think this is, as I mentioned, a journal that not a lot of student affairs practitioners might have awareness of. Can you tell us all about what this journal is, what it focuses on, what type of research typically shows up here?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:06:25]:
Yeah, well, so to be honest, before the call, I wasn't super familiar with it either. As with a lot of education journals, they have sort of a P through 20 focus just by the nature and volume of K through 12 organizations and research. It's kind of like the American Education Research Association. It's kind of like their journals where higher ed is kind of a small discipline in and of itself. So you'll find that most articles are probably K through 12 related. But I think that's why it was even more important for us to make this or or meet this call with research around higher education professionals. And it's geared towards the folks that are doing this staff support, human resources work. And I think we could elevate this topic more within our discipline in student affairs.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:07:06]:
I think it's equally important that we need to meet our partners on campus that have a lot of influence over systems and structures and help educate them and present them with, with good research and suggestions for the field.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:18]:
I think it's interesting the timing of this piece as well, because launching in January of 2024, And backing up, we know that these processes for publication can take months, if not sometimes years. And I would imagine there was a lot of influence of COVID in the COVID era in the wellbeing work that's in place in the articles. Can you talk about how that might have influenced and what you're seeing now as still evergreen from that particular point?
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:07:42]:
Yeah, I think one of the things that I would add too is that back in 2020, Jason, myself, and a couple other practitioners were talking about that very topic. We did another webinar, I believe it was with SA Now, and it was really about how coming out of COVID And this is where my interest became during COVID outta COVID, all the things that were happening around that time. It was so often professionals, both K-12, higher ed, the question was always, what do the students need? I know students, and we never really got to pause to think about what we needed for ourselves. And so that's where my interest in this work really became. And I think we still see a lot of that today. And so it's something that, that continues to be timely and a lot of things are associated to it. It's the nature of the work, but I really like to invite people to pause and think about what they need. need in any given situation before they jump to taking care of what the needs are of the students, because that's wellbeing, really thinking about what you need in the situation as well.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:08:36]:
So I think from 2020 and even probably before up until now, it's still prevalent, it's still relevant as well, and I don't think it's gonna go away. And that's why it's important that we keep talking about it.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:08:47]:
I think that when you kind of look at the list of articles and stuff too, like, well, and to your point around the publication machine, if you will, right? A lot of these articles are written kind of right after return to work era after COVID. And so even though published in 2025, a lot of the work was done and a lot of the research was based off of the lived experiences that were happening in the moment. But what I find fascinating too, and years after having this all published and going through it and looking back through these articles, all of it still applies. And so there's sort of this catch-22. They're like, well, I'm glad we did the work. And it's kind of like, well, did anybody listen to the work? Because I feel like there's a lot of hand-wringing sometimes around like, how did we get here? Why is this the way that it is? And I was like, well, People have been shouting from the rooftops for a while now about this. And I think to your point about being evergreen or timely, I think each one of these articles are still just as timely this year as they were in last year or even the years that they were written.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:43]:
I want to talk a little bit about the content. There are 13 or 14 articles that were curated for this particular edition, and they range from retention to remote work to supporting staff practitioners that have identities of people of color or other marginalized identities that they might bring it with their everyday selves at work. There's also about understanding the workplace satisfaction for mid-level folks. I think that one's really important because the mid-level is the largest trench of student affairs professionals that we have and also a critical place for development for future leadership. There's also some really important work on how we show up as people of color in the space. And then also there's an article that I found particularly interesting on reconstructing professionalism, because there's so much conversation around professionalism and who sets those standards and what are the histories and the origins of what does it mean to show up as a professional, whether it be what you wear or how you speak or what it means to interact. Do you have a favorite piece? I know that's hard to answer as editors, but do you have a favorite piece or maybe a piece that speaks to you the most?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:10:43]:
That's a loaded question, Jill. Well, so all of our authors submitted really great pieces. Enjoy all of them. So I guess that's my political answer. But I think the thing that really, that I tend to think about a lot is what you were just talking about around professionalism. And I even think about it in my role as a faculty member, it kind of carries over and what does it mean to be a professional in a faculty role. But, and I think the part of the reason I'm so interested in that is Margaret Salee at the University at Buffalo published a really great book that I have a chapter in around creating sustainable careers in higher ed, but really looking at it through this idea of ideal worker norms. And I've been doing a lot of reading.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:11:22]:
I taught a capstone class recently where we used the book called, was it The Good Enough Job, and how we kind of overprioritize or overidealize some of our professions sometimes. And there's a Dr. Fabazi in library Sciences coined this term called vocational awe. And it's sort of this idea that idolize this profession to such a degree that you're unable to critique it. And I think that in student affairs, even though we love to critique things, it's really hard for us to critique ourselves sometimes in the processes that we do because, and I'll throw the ball over to Gianmarco for his take on this too, because it's this idea that students are always first in this sort of customer service environment. You get it from both ends. You get the emotional guilt of students first, but then you also get sort of the, well, we're in a customer service role.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:12:04]:
Yeah. And like Jason, I would say, I love them all, but that's the one that I would talk about too. You know, for me, I'm a young leader in the work. And so the thing that strikes me about the professionalism conversation is that we have 4 to 5 generations in the workforce right now, 4 to 5. And so when we talk about ideal worker norms, right, that spans and that's changing constantly. Right. And so professionalism, in my opinion, is subjective. It's something that when you look at the origins of student affairs, the origins of higher education, it was created by a group of people for a certain group And I think it's kind of used as this tool or this thing or this notion even that, that's kind of placed upon others.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:12:44]:
But I tell people all the time, whether I have on a tie, a polo, or a jersey that I wore last week, it's not going to change what I say. And a lot of times when people talk about professionalism, it goes into what the appearance looks like. It goes into how they talk. And I think we've just, we have to continue to be mindful that it's not a one-size-fits-all. I think it's situational awareness. I think it's generational awareness. And so I like that it's a 4 to 5 multi-generational group. Yeah.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:13:10]:
generational workforce, but understanding that the way we work with that Gen Z is going to be much different than that baby boomer, and professionalism across those lines are also different. Yeah, I'll stop there. But I think that's certainly one that I appreciate. And as a young leader at the senior level, I like to challenge and disrupt that, even if I would.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:13:29]:
Funny anecdote, or at least I think it's funny for a second around this topic. So whenever I was in grad school, I went to NC State for my master's, and I was coming out doing the traditional job search and everything, and I had an on-campus interview. And obviously I won't name the institution or anything, but there was a lot of talk about how professional they are. This is a professional institution. We are a professional department. And so I was curious, as I tend to be, and kept asking in the different sections of the interview, well, what does professionalism mean to you? And truly, the folks that I was interviewing with really couldn't get past sort of the visuals of professionalism. So it was a lot of, we wear ties to work, we like wear suits. And obviously I ended up turning that job down, but that experience really struck me because I'm like, well, if we're also going to be holding people to a professional standard, we also should be able to define what professionalism actually is.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:14:17]:
And I think folks kind of take that for granted sometimes too.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:14:20]:
If I could just add one more thing to that. So my career also clashes student affairs with athletics. And so there would be days, you know, I oversaw athletics at my last school. I was the interim AD. There would be days where I leave my house and I say, well, today I'm gonna dress like I work in athletics. And you know, that, that equals shorts and polo. Does that mean I'm gonna be less professional in my role as vice chancellor? No. And so I think it can't just stop at appearance.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:43]:
It's not possible.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:14:43]:
It's not fair. I talk to people about facial hair because I have a beard and not just a goatee or just a clean-shaven. Does that change how I'm perceived? Maybe. But does it change how I'm going to show up? No. So I think it's really important to go beyond appearance.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:59]:
Those standards being implicit often, as opposed to explicit, I think is where the profession in itself has seen some challenges around everything from what you were talking about in appearance there to dress code, to whatever else it means to show up as your professional self. And I think that leads us down a road of code switching. and a number of other things that come into play there. That's something I think we could dissect for a very long time. As we think about the other elements of this particular special edition, what other topics would you like to see highlighted?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:15:29]:
I'll say that I think that one of the pieces I was glad to see a proposal for that ended up being in the article was the work from home piece. I think that in student affairs too, that I think it can almost be antithetical to some folks and their values around student affairs. Like, I think that some folks folks came up in the professional socialization that you're on campus and you're there to support students, and that means a physical presence. And I think that, like I said, I kind of came through professionally through residence life, and it's so interesting to think about that as a work-from-home space too, because I was a resident director for my first few years. And at my first institution, it was very much like you were in your office from 8 to 5. There is no work from home. We will call you at 8 o'clock in the morning to make sure you were in your office, even if you were up to 5 o'clock in the morning with a duty call. But then, uh, and we'll name this institution.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:16:17]:
I worked at UC Berkeley, and that was completely the opposite there. And I felt, even though there was definitely challenges in the role, like they were very much like, hey, what you need, and like, we trust that you were building community. And so I was able to do things in my own calendar, and I really thrived in that piece and really appreciated the arguments that the authors were making. I have seen a little bit more of an uptick of folks having more of a hybrid schedule, I guess, in those ways.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:42]:
Yeah, that piece is called Why Not Remote? Campus-Centric HR Policies' Impact on Wellness and Retention. student affairs professionals. I know in my current environment, we do a 1-day remote a week, and our staff use that for focused work time to also just get time in their life back from the commute that might happen and opportunities to do everything from take a delivery to do laundry in the middle of the day. Those things add so much value to employee health, wellbeing, satisfaction, retention, for sure.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:17:11]:
And I'll add, and one thing that I found in that is, so in my current role, I work primarily from home. I teach mainly online. And I've noticed that while I still have an affinity for my institution, there's a much firmer boundary. And so I don't get as wrapped up in sort of the institutional minutia that you can if you're kind of on campus all the time. And I also noticed, as a— whenever I'm teaching our first-year students and everything, one of the pieces of advice I always give them is I wish that I would have done a better job as a new professional making friends that had nothing to do with higher education and getting involved with like community organizations that had nothing to do with higher education, because I was definitely one of those that lived, breathed, and had all my friends were higher ed folks for a number of years, and I think that led to a lot of burnout because you couldn't escape it and you only had that one perspective of life that you're around. So I think that work from home also allows for a little more flexibility of expanding your world in those ways.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:18:04]:
I'd say the one area that I really appreciate, and it's certainly a personal interest, is just what I would call the weight of responding to student crisis and how it becomes so cyclical over time. And I can't remember the name of the exact article, but it talked about— it was very compassion fatigue heavy, but it was We've got to make sure we're taking care of ourselves so that we can fully take care of others. And my research is certainly along those lines as well, researching secondary trauma in student affairs professionals. And through all of that, the thing that I often come back to is we have to do a better job of taking care of the people who take care of the people. That's my approach to it. You know, you hear a lot of schools talk about being students first, student-centered, and my approach is that we have to be staff-centered and student-focused. And that article really hit on that. It also talked about how it's important for a human resource department To talk more about their EAP offerings, talk more about the stuff that's there.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:18:59]:
They're often hidden, and it's free, and people don't know that it's free. And it gets into a lot of stuff, not just the counseling. And so it talked about institutions just making that stuff be more known. Don't make it be the best kept secret. It doesn't need to be a secret. Let folks know about those benefits. So I really appreciated that because when we look at higher ed, specifically around these times of the year, it's heavy. You're dealing with a lot of stuff that of just trying to do the job, and then you throw in the student crisis, and we are here for our students.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:19:24]:
We here to make sure we're supporting them, but eventually it gets heavy on you. And so how are you making sure that you're equipped? How are you making sure that you're well enough to be able to take on those situations? So I appreciated that article about that.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:37]:
Gianmarco, is that the put on your own mask first before assisting others article?
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:19:41]:
Yep, that's the one.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:42]:
That one is colon, prioritizing a collaborative approach to the wellness of student and academic affairs professionals. I'm wondering what that looks like for you operationalizing it as a concept, especially when you're the VP at such a large institution. There's several hundred staff in student affairs at Wichita State. What does that mean for how you prepare your managers who are leading others and the staff that need the balance of, yes, we're supporting students as the center of our work, and also we need to be engaging in systemic care for each other and ourselves?
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:20:12]:
It's new for me here at Wichita State, but I, you know, I carry the experience from my time at the University of Iowa, most recently my time at the University of Illinois Springfield. And it's really about giving people permission to stop stuff, because that's usually where we think we have to do everything because we've always done everything. And it sounds It's broad, but in breaking it in, it's really about, we don't have to do that. That's not necessary to be effective, right? It's also helping people understand that busy doesn't equal effective. And so really asking our folks to be more intentional, be intentional about how we're using our resources, and not just talking about our dollars, but our people resources. And so when I talk about giving people permission to stop things, it's really just inviting this idea that we can still get to that end goal without step 3, 4. It could really just be 1, 2, and 5 that we need to get there. And so I try to create a culture I try to create a culture of there's a situation where you might be impacted by it.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:21:07]:
You don't need to be the person engaging in that. So it's as simple as just, hey, it'll be there tomorrow. I think another good example that I like to talk to people about, I appreciate remote work, but I think I had a staff member here a couple weeks ago who they were sick or they had a sick kid and they're like, well, we could just move the meeting to remote. And I was like, no, we can't. That work's gonna be there next week. And so I think it's convenient when it's convenient, but that doesn't mean that it's gotta assume or occupy all of our time. And so, in my role, I have the luxury of being able to give the division that flexibility. We're able to do it at my last school, and we did it really well, and we took care of our people.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:21:43]:
One of the things we also talked about is that, is there a work-life balance? Not really, but we can have harmony, and we're going to be respectful of people's time, right? Take your time off, take your mental health days, work from home if you need to, but if you need to be away, be away. I think it's ultimately—
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:21:58]:
that's ultimately what it Well, Jill, I know that you are a facilitator, but can I ask a question of Jamarko?
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:04]:
Yes, please do.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:22:05]:
Well, Jamarko, so this is kind of grounded in— I did a research study with Brittany McDaniels, who has since left HIRE, but she was at Wesleyan, and Kendall Peete, who's now at the University of Maryland at Baltimore County, I believe. And it was about workplace thriving because we saw a lot of stuff around workplaces are bad. Where are the good places at and why are they good? We studied this quantitatively, and one of the things that we found as a predictor of workplace thriving was recognition, and specifically recognition through advocacy of supervisors. So when supervisors tell their staff's story and advocate up, that was one of the top predictors of workplace thriving for student affairs professionals. Particularly this population was in housing. So I guess my question, Gianmarco, is that in all the years I've known you, one of the things I think you do really well is advocacy and doing it in a way that people can hear. How do you advocate to people above, whether you're entry-level advocating to mid, or even as a VP now advocating to your president for your staff? Like, how do you do that?
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:22:59]:
Yeah, I think it's really trying to be on the same page as to what it is that folks want to accomplish. And again, this is where— so I come into the role, this is my second VP role, this is my 13th year in the profession. So I don't have the 20-plus years of the experience, but I come into it from a very systematic approach. And so when you think about it, systems thinking, I'll use Wichita State. So Wichita State as a whole needs its individual units to be successful so that Wichita State can be successful, so that the Kansas Board of Regents, so on and so forth. And so I talked to my folks about as a, as a student affairs unit, we have to do our part in helping Wichita State accomplish those goals. And so when I'm talking with leadership, it's, what do you need me to accomplish? And then there's different ways to accomplish that, right? It's not that I need someone working 60, 70 hours a week. It's not that we need to have all these barriers.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:23:49]:
So finding ways to be efficient and effective, that's ultimately what it's about for me. I tell my staff and my students all the time, I love the agency that I have in the role, but I recognize that it's not mine, it's theirs. And so I use my position to do that, to advocate, to make sure those voices are heard. I often talk about how I have a commitment to being that annoying fly that just won't go away, because that's what we got to do. When you talk about advocating for students, making sure that that voice is always there, we talk about advocating for staff, it's there. The other part though, and at times I'm a hypocrite at this, so I am really good at making my staff take that time, be away. I'm bad at it myself. And so I recognize too that I've got to get better at modeling the way we talk about, because that's self-advocacy, right? That you don't have to always be So if I'm working at midnight, don't send that email, schedule it to go the next morning.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:24:39]:
It's those kind of things that just sends those signals so that people can feel confident. I think self-advocacy is that, all right, the VP emailed me at 10, I'm not gonna reply until 8. It's giving people those types of permission. The baseline of that, Jason, though, I think has to be psychological safety. People have to know that those things are okay. And I think culture, if culture, uh, past or present doesn't conform with that, people are gonna think they have to do it right away. people are going to be timid, they're going to be walking on eggshells, and you're not going to get good work out of them. And in return, they're not going to be able to advocate for themselves because they're afraid to do it.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:25:14]:
So being able to take all that stuff out of the space and give people the empowerment that they need to be able to advocate for themselves. So it's not one thing, it's, it's, it's kind of a, it's a tool belt of several things that you've got to be willing to do and willing to try to make it work.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:26]:
There's so much richness in the conversation around how we support kind of the wellbeing of our staff in student affairs in this issue.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:25:34]:
I'm wondering what are the most prominent things that you've taken and implemented I won't name it because it's not public knowledge yet, but I have a colleague that is in an upper-level role that has restructured their department to just kind of a completely new format in a way that it was driven by data around staff wellbeing and how staff completed their strengths and creating the psychological safety of, in this reorg, it's not about you losing your job or being docked pay or anything like that. It's that we are creating mechanisms to be able to spread the work and the impact of this work. work out a little more because they noticed that work was getting piled on specific individuals or units. So I think that's one thing that I've really seen. I think one of the larger national conversations that I've seen is the role, particularly in housing, is like the role of the resident assistant. I think a lot of changes have been coming to that in several institutions around like perhaps we shouldn't be relying on a 19-year-old to be saving a student who is experiencing suicidal ideation. That's probably not their place to be doing. And I do think that the people were concerned.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:26:38]:
And I will say that I do think that I hear from a lot of upper-level leaders they are concerned for their staff. I think the issue is that higher education is a very unique— people like to say it's a business, and I always like to roll my eyes at that because I was like, it's not a business, it's more of a municipality, if anything, right? Because you have so many different stakeholders that businesses don't have. As a public institution, we answer to students and parents and faculty and community partners and taxpayers and legislators and the federal government and all these different things. And I think that's where the pressure gets in, is that how do I discern as an upper-level leader where to push back, where to protect my staff? Where do we need to accept and move on? Like, how, how do you do all of that? Because like, it's a really precarious position to be in because you're, you as an individual are being expected to solve systemic issues. VPs, like, they're kind of stuck in the middle of all of these intersections of these different stakeholders, right? And so it's the idea that, how do I balance this? Is it that I need to advocate at this moment? Is it that I need to help my staff through something that we just can't change? And I don't think there's really a lot of training for that.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:27:41]:
Yeah.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:27:42]:
I think that structurally a lot of things are being experimented with. I think that those will help. And yet there's systems that need to be changed and we can't just expect one person or like our singular VPs to be able to change an entire national system by themselves. Right. And I don't have the answer as to how we do that. But I think collectively there are people smarter than I that can help lead that conversation.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:28:08]:
And I would say, right, as sitting in the seat and having done it at another institution, and I'll tell you, it's been much more busy here at Wichita State than it was for me at UAS. And part of that is just, it's a larger institution. There's more stakeholders, to your point. I think the key is, I'll go back to something that I said earlier. It's, I talked to my staff about how can we do less better? And as we do less better, how does that help us reclaim some of our time, reclaim some of that energy? Some places, especially in a world of budget issues, it tends to be, let's do more with less. And again, I'm really, let's do less better. Again, when I think about it from a student standpoint, I tell staff, I don't wanna see 50 events. I wanna see 18 good experiences because that's ultimately what people are gonna remember.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:28:55]:
They're gonna remember the experience. They're not gonna remember all of those 32 other events. And so when I equate that to staff, it's, it's being able to reclaim time. It's being able to reclaim energy. And so doing less better, I think, is one path to accomplishing, you know, higher ed tells us that we have to just go, go, go, go, go. And I'm very much a Hey, let's take a break. Let's slow down. We don't have to go as fast.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:29:16]:
We talk about on my team, we want to be proactive so that we can be effectively reactive. And the example that I use with that is that I'll, I've been, I'll tell people I've never seen October at Wichita State. So I don't really know what to expect, but I have a lot of people on my staff who have. And so let's anticipate what we know is going to happen in October. Let's anticipate how busy we're going to be in November. And that might mean that we need to be a little bit less busy in October. And so it's really using that type of data to, to help us figure out where it is that we need to go. Again, how do we stop stuff? But ultimately it gets back to let's do less better.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:29:53]:
Let's not always do it just because we've always done it. That's the last thing I like to hear. And then again, just giving people permission to do less better, making people feel psychologically safe. I think a lot of times people equate effectiveness with busy and knowing that that's not the case. And when we can again tone down on that, you're getting your time back. You're being able to really be off when you're off. You can actually be away when you're away. That's the thing.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:30:17]:
where, you know, I've had people told me since I've been here, well, I'm off tomorrow, but call me if you need to. No, I'm not calling you. We'll take care of that next week. It's stuff like that where, and it's, it's gotta be little, it's gotta be consistent, but it's also persistent and trying to tackle it and get after it.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:32]:
I think this leads us really nicely into our theme questions for the season. So I've got 2 questions on the theme of enhancing the career pathways and wellbeing of student affairs professionals. And our first is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing that a supervisor can do to enhance the career pathway of the people they're charged with leading?
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:30:52]:
I've got, I've got an easy thing, and it's, it's like maybe double as both, but I have a rule that we broke on at my last school that I'm implementing here, that I don't lead anything in my division that's just for the division. I'll work on it with people, but if I need to be away, that work has to be able to continue. And so, I'm very firm on like this, and this gets to that divisional leader versus institutional leader. And so, I like to build people up so that if I need to be away, I know that those balls can keep rolling. And so, as I lead people, it's really important that they learn my job. They may not want my job, but they may need to be able to step into it or, or kind of hold that space if I'm gone. And so, I work with leaders on doing that with their staff, and then we get to model that with mine. What that's equated to for me is that the last couple of places that I left, my number 2, or the person who's, who's kind of stepped in for me, has gotten that job.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:31:47]:
Because we've worked from a very, you know, my leadership is a consensus, it's a collaboration leadership, and really helping people stretch and grow. And so, it's easy to help your— pull your people along. Don't, you know, as leaders, I think leaders often want all the spotlight. You don't need the spotlight. What I know to be true is that the people who are really making these divisions go forward is what you talked about earlier, Jill, those mid-level folks, those directors, right? Those are the folks who are making it go. And so, how do we make sure we're empowering them? And so, finding opportunities for directors to engage with the VP, finding opportunities for the, my direct reports to also engage, but also be able to fill my space. And I think the hard part for people is letting it go. Just let it go.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:32:28]:
Let people do that. Right. And that's how you can build a good division. One of the things I've been talking to my team about is that we've gotta be able to go from being a, a golf team to being a football team. And so the, the concept was that as a golf team, it's a team still, but you got a bunch of individuals, right? You've got, you can get first, someone can get first place, someone can get 15th, and the team can still get last. And I need a football team or a basketball team where there's one result, understanding that we've got to work together. The message that I've said to the team to really get that across is that your portfolios may be your responsibility, but student affairs is our shared responsibility. And so just trying to shift everyone's thinking to be along those lines.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:33:06]:
And our second question, what might you want vice presidents of student affairs to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not I think for me, it's, I think that blends with the last question too, a little bit about supervisors and the common theme that kind of keeps coming up across different concepts that I study, like moral injury, secondary trauma, psychological safety, all these things, is that new professionals just tend to be the ones that are most impacted, or I guess they tend to be the ones that have the highest or lowest scores in whatever the negative category might be compared to their mid-level or senior counterparts. But the sense that I've been kind of making of that Right. And thinking about my own experience as a new professional is that one, you don't know what you don't know. And anytime you're in a new environment, you're nervous and because you don't know what to expect. And so you're already kind of in this like heightened, your body's in this sort of like heightened hypervigilant state. Even if you're in a good position, you might really love your first position or whatever that is, but your body is still kind of primed to be a little more on edge with different things because you haven't been through it before. And that's for anybody. If you haven't, if you haven't had a particular experience, there's always gonna be some sort of edge to that.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:34:18]:
So my point, I guess, is with developing wellbeing or supervision and things like that is being a little bit more intentional with our onboarding of folks that are new into the profession in and of itself. So like, one thing I always hear from supervisors is these new folks just don't know how to do X, or they don't know how to set boundaries. And I'm like, well, did you ever take a class or did anybody ever sit you down and be like, hey, this is how you set a boundary? And more often than not, people are like, no. And so I'm like, well, perhaps. Like, I, in my classes, I do a module on boundary setting. And I was like, what does that mean? What does it mean for you? How do we like do that? That in a professional manner? So I think it's all these sort of soft skills that folks take for granted that folks are learning and actually helping folks contextualize it within their position and within their institution. And I recognize that can be hard sometimes because folks are— there's institutional culture that you're dealing with at the same time of dealing with the individual, right? And so as a supervisor, even as a senior-level leader, you're still in the middle between sort of this idea of the culture and the individual. And so there's a balance to be struck.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:35:21]:
And I also think that stating those things loud. Something that is, is sometimes working, sometimes not for me, but inevitably the person that will just say the hard truth in the room. And I think sometimes people just need to hear it so they can process it. Yeah.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:35:32]:
I think as I'm in the role and trying to navigate it, and I will say, I don't have the, the, the complete answer for this because I'm still trying to figure it out too. But actually I just forgot the question. So, Joe, could you tell me the question again? I was headed on a train as you were talking and I forgot the question. So sorry. Yeah. So like we've gotta hone in on that word holistic. I think that's, that's the number one key, right?
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]:
We talk about holistic for the students.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:35:56]:
And the message that I would offer is that the staff experience is just as important as the student experience. Staff wellbeing is student wellbeing, right? Staff success is student success. So all these things really equate to it. And so I go back to my staff-centered, student-focused, you know, when I talk about it, I usually have the example that if the students are the center, they're all stacked atop each other. You can't really see it because there's more students than staff. And so it's not, it's not possible to see it. Now, if the students become the focal point, right? I've got 3 different colors. If they're the focal point, I'll show the color in the middle.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:36:31]:
You then have groups of staff at the center who could pay attention to the different focal points. And so that's why I think that staff-centered, student-focused is important. And in that, you give staff permission to not have to be everything for everyone. They can really focus on those areas that appeal to them. They can focus on an area where, you know, I've got these 2 sticky notes. Well, I might have issues with this, this blue area, but I don't have any issues with this, with this pink area. So I'm going to be able to really hone in on it because I have personal things that impact me with this one. So really giving people the permission to kind of pick and curtail their experiences or the work that they get to do as it relates to specifically taking care of issues.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:37:09]:
And so that's just one way to think about it. Again, don't have it fully sorted out. If I do, I'll convene with a lot of BPSAs to try to get them the answer. But I would say it's really honing in on that holistic and really thinking about that whole person for the staff, just as we do with the students.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:25]:
It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in In the NASPA World.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:31]:
Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA World, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Last month, NASPA released its annual research on top issues in student affairs. The 2026 NASPA Top Issues in Student Affairs report provides you with a snapshot of priorities in higher education among student affairs professionals in 2026, while highlighting areas where professionals need additional support. The 3rd annual iteration of the study expanded to include perspectives from student Affairs professionals at all levels, including vice presidents of student affairs, senior-level assistant vice presidents, faculty, mid-level, or new professionals. Participants rated the level of importance of 25 issues within 5 key areas: administration and governance, assessment and evaluation, health, safety, and well-being, student success and technology, and digital innovation. The 2026 Top Issues in Student affairs research tells us a clear story that student success and wellbeing remains at the center of the work. However, professionals recognize that meaningful progress depends on how well we strategically collaborate, invest, and align data assessment efforts to build institutional capacity.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:50]:
Student success and wellbeing remain foundational priorities in 2026 for institutions and the work of student affairs. Issues in the area of student success were rated within the top five most important issues across all professional levels. Aggregating responses from all professional levels this year, noting the distinction in vice presidents being asked about level of importance of each issue to their institution in 2026 and others asked about level of importance to their role, shows the top three issues most frequently rated as very. important are, first, increasing institution-wide collaboration to deliver coordinated student success supports. Second, providing students with education and supports to ensure that they have affirming institutional experiences. And third, using feedback from students through surveys, focus groups, and other assessment tools to improve holistic student supports. You can learn more about all of these findings on the NASPA website. Just go to naspa.org.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:55]:
This was an eye-opening report. It will definitely provide you with some really key insights into what is important today within members of the association. There is a new issue of the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice that was released recently. For those of you that have never reviewed the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, the vision of this journal is to produce the most rigorous, relevant, and well-respected research and practice making a difference in student affairs practice. JSARP especially encourages manuscripts that are unconventional in nature and that engage in methodological and epistemological extensions that transcend the boundaries of traditional research inquiries. In the most recent issue, there are a ton of different research and scholarship articles that range from how LGBTQIA+ STEM students navigate campus microclimates, to from Friendsgiving to group advising, student mattering and HESA master's programs, to early adversity and mental health challenges facing Latinx students in higher education. You'll also find a few additional articles, one on artificial intelligence in student affairs and services, a global study on adoption perceptions and ethical Considerations and Enhancing Student-Athlete Belonging Through an Identity-Focused Intervention. All of these articles are provided in the new journal, and this journal, along with a number of other journals, are all included in your membership to NASPA.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:34]:
All you have to do to access this journal is to go to the NASPA website at naspa.org, go under Research and Publications, and then go to Scholarly Journals. Once you go there, you'll see all of the different journals that are available, and you can access all of those as a part of your membership to the association. A reminder for all of you about the NASPA Public Policy Hub. The Public Policy Hub is an amazing resource that's available to all NASPA members. You can access it by going to the NASPA website at naspa.org, go to Key Initiatives, and go down to the Policy Hub. If it's the first time that you've ever gone there, you may need to register. As a member, you do have access to doing that. It's simple and easy and free.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:23]:
And then once you have that, you can go in and you can identify what type of Policy Hub updates and resources you want to have access to, and you can sign up for all of those as well. Then you will start getting emails from them to be able to keep you up to date on things that they're working on, things that are happening, and things that you will want to make sure that you stay on track or on track to know because of how it will impact the work that you're doing within your state or beyond. Again, go to naspa.org, click on Key Initiatives, and scroll down to the Policy Hub. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back. Each This week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:58]:
I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things, to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:28]:
Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. Lots going on this week. And Jason and Jamarco, we have reached our lightning round. I've got 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to do this?
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:44:43]:
Let's do it.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:44:44]:
I think so.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:44]:
All right. Question 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:44:49]:
If you've ever seen Legally Blonde, there's this song by LeAnn Rimes, and I forgot what the name of it is, but We Can Do the Impossible. And I was like, if I ever ran for president, that was, that would be my like campaign song. So I would say that for this too.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:44:59]:
Then I would come out to Dreams and Nightmares by Meek Mill.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:03]:
Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:45:06]:
I wanted to be a paleontologist. I was obsessed with Jurassic Park. I had the whole playset and all of it. And so I thought that I was going to be out there hunting for dinosaur bones when I was in kindergarten.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:45:16]:
I wanted to be a professional football player.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:18]:
Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:45:22]:
Well, so I'll say that to this day, I think that my dissertation chair slash doctoral advisor, Dr. Chris Glass, he's at Boston College now, but I think who I am as a faculty member and how I operate and how I kind of view my role is a direct lineage of, of him and observing. And I just wouldn't be where I'm at now if it wasn't for him. So, hey, Chris, shout out to you.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:45:43]:
Mine would be Chancellor Janet Gooch, my chancellor at my last school. She took a chance at hiring a 30-year-old to be a vice chancellor and forever indebted, but she was just a great partner in doing the work. She cares about the profession. And so I just learned a lot from her about how to be a great and effective leader. And so I appreciate that.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:00]:
Number 4, your essential student affairs read.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:46:03]:
I mean, I think I referred to it earlier, but I'm always pushing the creating sustainable careers. It just has such good insights from authors that are— they tried to pair faculty and staff for each chapter, and it's just a beautifully curated book. I advocate for that.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:46:17]:
I'm gonna shout out 2 NASPA books. So the first one is Executive Transition in Student Affairs. So this was so vital for me going into my first role. I went from assistant dean of students to a vice chancellor role, and it's been great to revisit it moving from a VP role to a VP role. And then a recent one that we got is the Well-Being Leadership in Higher Education. I've just appreciated being able to thumb through it.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:37]:
So those Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:46:43]:
Well, it just started its new season. Uh, my husband and I are big reality TV people, so one is The Traitors and 2 is Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. So we are deeply into both of those.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:46:54]:
It's hard for me to, to stick with the series, but I really enjoyed watching The Pit.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:58]:
Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:47:02]:
Oh, that's easy. I listen to Race Chaser by Willam and Alaska. It's a drag queen podcast, covers like RuPaul and the drag queen world.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:47:09]:
Number 4, And I spend a lot of time listening to The Pivot. It's like a sports and culture podcast.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:15]:
And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, either personal or professional?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:47:19]:
Oh, I'll just shout out all the folks that have come along and influenced me in my career to where I am today. I know it started off with folks like Amy Hector at UNCW and Diane Reed and all those folks in undergrad and went to my master's program with Crystal Clark. It was at Vanderbilt and just all through, I know that all the Burke staff, Glenn DeGuzman and James Carroll and Chanel and Marnie and all those folks, and then doctoral folks today here at App State are just great people.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:47:51]:
Yeah. And I'm actually going to shout out Dr. Jason Lynch. So Dr. Lynch was on my dissertation committee, and I think as it relates to the work of trauma studies in education, well-being, compassion fatigue, Jason's doing some great work. So I just appreciate what he's done to build community and bring people together around these important topics. And it's empowered me. It's certainly a very important part of how I lead and the leadership work I get to do.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:48:14]:
And so I appreciate being a practitioner at this level, having a friend and a colleague in Jason who is doing it on a foundational level and a profession-wide level as well. So I really appreciate that.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:48:25]:
Thank you, Jamarko.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:26]:
We really appreciate you educating us today on this beautiful journal. And I hope that practitioners can go check it out. Again, it's the Journal of Education Human Resources from January 2025. So you should be able to access that through your university libraries. Jason, if folks would like to get ahold of you after the show, how can they find you?
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:48:45]:
You can connect with me at LinkedIn. It's ln/jasonlynchphd, or my institutional email address is lynchrj@appstate.edu.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:00]:
And Jamarco, how about you?
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:49:01]:
Yes, you can reach me at jamarco.clark@wicata.edu. J-A-M-A-R-C-O dot C-L-A-R-K at W-I-C-A-T-A dot E-D-U.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:14]:
Thank you both so much for sharing your voices with us today.
Dr. Jason Lynch [00:49:17]:
Thanks, Julie.
Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:49:18]:
Thank you.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:19]:
This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at savoices@nasp.org. Or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:44]:
If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us. We'd love it if you spend a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.