On the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes the editorial team behind NASPA's new book, In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs. This conversation brings together C. Spencer Platt, Darryl B. Holliman, and Dr. Gigi Secuban for a rich dialogue about supporting, empowering, and reimagining what it means to thrive as a mid-level professional in student affairs.
Main Themes:
1. Embracing Nonlinear Career Journeys:
The editors bring decades of experience and candidly share their own career paths—often starting outside traditional student affairs roles and navigating into the field through academic advising, admissions, and cultural centers. A key message: there's no single "right" way to build a career in higher education, and each journey offers invaluable perspective.
2. The Importance of Representation and Networking:
All three editors emphasize the necessity of building networks, not just for advancement but for mentorship and collaborative growth. Their own partnership was born from conference conversations, mutual aspirations, and the desire to uplift voices in the mid-level space, especially those historically underrepresented.
3. A Modern, Practical Resource:
What sets In the Middle apart is its up-to-date take on pressing issues: political landscapes, diversity, equity, belonging, self-care, and evolving best practices in supervision. Mid-level professionals are encouraged to find themselves in the book—its chapters range from core competencies and intercultural resilience to the "politics in practice" of today's higher ed environment.
4. Permission to Grow—Or to Stay:
A recurring refrain challenges the idea that everyone must "climb the ladder." It's okay—and sometimes ideal—to find fulfillment at a mid-level role. The editors encourage professionals to pursue authentic leadership and make choices based on passion rather than external expectations.
5. Prioritizing Well-Being and Authenticity:
The panelists reflect on the importance of self-care, both for professionals and for those they supervise. They emphasize the value of kindness, community, and letting go of micromanagement—and remind us that supervisors can best lead others by bringing their whole, authentic selves to the work.
If you're ready for honest insights and practical advice—whether you're a mid-level manager, aspiring leader, or simply interested in the evolving field of student affairs—this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to hear firsthand perspectives, learn about In the Middle, and find encouragement for wherever you are on your professional journey.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back, listeners, to our next episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. Today, we're introducing you to 3 editors of a brand new NASPA book called In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs. This book fits really nicely with our enhancing career pathways and wellbeing theme this season, and I'm really excited to introduce you to 2 new voices to the show and one returning voice.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]:
Our first new voice is C. Spencer Platt, who is an associate professor of higher education administration at the University of South Carolina. Dr. Platt currently directs the Community College Leadership Alliance, and is the former director of the Center for Innovation in Higher Education at the University of South Carolina. He earned his PhD from the University of Texas at Austin and a Master of Science from the University of Dayton and a baccalaureate degree from the University of South Carolina. Dr. Platt has over 20 years of experience in teaching, research, student affairs, community engagement, diversity, equity, and academic affairs on college campuses. His research typically focuses on diversity, equity, access, and excellence in education with an emphasis on underrepresented students, faculty, and staff experiences at predominantly white universities.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:30]:
He has secured over $1 million in extramural funds for research through the National Science Foundation and the National Endowment for the Humanities. His research is published in numerous books and articles, including the Journal of College Student Development, AERA Open, and the Journal of Negro Education. He has co-edited 4 books, the one that we're talking about today, another called From Boyhood to Manhood: Deconstructing Black Masculinity Through a Lifespan Continuum, a 3rd book called Multicultural Education in the 21st Century: Innovative Research and Practices in Higher Education, and a 4th book, Comprehensive Multicultural Education in 21st Century: Increasing Access in an Age of Retrenchment. He has presented his work at numerous national and international academic conferences and institutes, including the American Educational Research Association, the Association for the Study of Higher Education, the International Conference on Doctoral Education, and the International Colloquium on Black Males in Education. He's a proud member of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity and a fall 1998 initiate of the Zeta Epsilon chapter at the University of South Carolina. Our second new voice to meet today is Dr. Gigi Secuban, who currently serves as the Vice President for Inclusive Excellence and Belonging at Montgomery College in Rockville, Maryland. She brings more than 25 years of higher education experience, including the inaugural vice president roles for inclusive excellence at Texas State University and Ohio University.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:47]:
Previously, Dr. Secuban held leadership positions at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, where she oversaw the renovation of the Bruce D. Nesbitt African American Cultural Center, and at the University of Arkansas, where she served as senior associate director for the freshman engineering program, director of the Multicultural Center, director of student affairs and diversity services in the College of Education, and Health Professions, as well as an Assistant Director of Undergraduate Admissions. Her work centers on advancing diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging, DEIB, promoting student success, and fostering campus environments where all individuals are valued, supported, and heard. She's led initiatives focused on cultural and resource centers, inclusive excellence planning, DEIB fundraising and branding, and campus climate assessment. In March of 2026, Dr. Sukuban co-released a book with NASPA that we're talking about today, and she was also recently honored with the Outstanding Alumni Award for the University of Arkansas College of Education and Health Professions recognition of her leadership and impact in higher ed. Dr.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:42]:
Sukuban earned her Doctor of Education in Higher Ed Administration, Master of Science in Health Science, and Bachelor of Arts in Psychology, all from the University of Arkansas. Soror Gigi is a proud 33-year member and Silver Soror of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated. Initiated into the Kappa Iota chapter on April 11th, 1993, at the University of Arkansas, Dr. Sukuban has demonstrated a longstanding commitment to leadership and service within the sorority. She previously held membership in the Epsilon Epsilon Omega chapter in Central Illinois, where she served as chapter hostess and is a charter member of the Phi Alpha Omega chapter in the Northwest Arkansas area. She also served as a chapter advisor to the Kappa Iota chapter for 3 years, mentoring undergraduate members and supporting their leadership development. Dr. Sukuban was selected in 2021 as one of 25 fellows in the sorority's inaugural Executive Leadership Academy, further strengthening her leadership capacity and impact.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:32]:
She has served as a voting delegate at multiple national and regional conferences, and she actively contributes to the development of others through her participation in leadership institutes like the Great Lakes Leadership Experience and by facilitating workshops at regional chapter meetings. Our 3rd guest today is a voice that you got to know in the spring of 2026, Dr. Darryl B. Holliman, who is also our current NASPA Board Chair. He is a distinguished leader in higher education with over 3 decades of experience in student affairs, academic administration and institutional advancement, governance and board relations, and human talent management. He's worked at several regional and nationally recognized higher education institutions where he supervised collectively over employees and overseeing budgets of more than $300 million. His extensive experience, strategic vision, and unwavering commitment to student success and institutional excellence make him a transformative leader in higher education. His contributions continue to inspire and shape the future of academic communities.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:25]:
Dr. Holliman has several articles and book chapters to his credit, and his research examines the way that disadvantaged groups develop and demonstrate their agency in educational systems, particularly within urban school settings. He is the co-editor of the book entitled From Boyhood to Manhood: Deconstructing Black Masculinity Through a Lifespan Continuum through Peter Lang Press. Welcome back, SA Voices. We are so glad to be here today with authors of a book that we're excited that NASPA has launched for you all. The book is In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs. And we're here today with our 3 editors, Darryl Holliman, Spencer Platt, and Gigi Sukuban. They are all with us today to tell us more about the journey of this book and how you might use it in your student affairs professional work.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:09]:
So I'm so excited to welcome back Darryl. Glad to have you back on the show.
C. Spencer Platt [00:06:13]:
I'm glad to be back.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:06:14]:
Hi, NASPA family.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:16]:
And Spencer, hello. First time on the pod.
C. Spencer Platt [00:06:18]:
Hi, Jill. Good to see you.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:20]:
And Gigi, glad to see you.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:06:21]:
Hi, everybody. It's nice to finally work with you, Jill, virtually, and nice to meet everyone. And thank you for joining us today.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:28]:
Before we dig into the book, which has so many rich chapters, I'm so grateful to have gotten a chance to read a bit of it before our conversation. We always love to start off our episodes by getting to know you more as a person and a professional with the question, How did you get to your current seat? And we'll start with Darrell, who has been on the pod just recently as last year as he ascended to the NASPA board chair position. So Darrell, go ahead and refresh us on who you are.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:06:53]:
Absolutely. Hi, I'm Darrell Holliman. I'm the current board chair for NASPA. Started my career about 32 years ago. And what is interesting is I didn't take a traditional pathway. I actually started as an academic advisor on the academic side. I had a wonderful conversation with a young man the other day. Hey, Kevin.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:07:13]:
And was sharing with Kevin a bit of my journey. And so I did not get into student affairs purist work until about 10 years into my career. And I became the Associate Dean Director of the Paul Robeson Campus Center, which really kicked off my career from that point. So that's my story.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:33]:
And Darryl continuing his service in the NASPA Board Chair role for about another half a year. We're about halfway through that North Star project. that we talked about in our last episode with him. And Spencer, first time on the pod. How did you get to your current seat?
C. Spencer Platt [00:07:47]:
Yeah, so I'm currently an associate professor at the University of South Carolina, but I started out in student affairs. I started out at Horry-Georgetown Technical College in Conway, South Carolina, right beside Coastal Carolina, and worked there for a few months before heading to the University of Dayton for, for a master's degree, then University of Texas. to work in housing and eventually started a doctoral program, but, you know, worked in a number of different other capacities at the University of Texas before coming to the University of South Carolina. And I've been here since 2012.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:18]:
What are you specializing in as a professor?
C. Spencer Platt [00:08:20]:
Higher ed is the field, but, you know, I do issues of equity and access. I do org administration governance issues. And a lot of my more recent research has been on faculty diversity, especially in engineering where it's been really difficult for, to diversify. And so we, we, we, we are thinking, you know, what helps engineering is likely to help everybody else, you know, if, if they're interested in trying to diversify their faculty.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:49]:
Gigi, we're so glad to speak with you as well today. How did you get to your current seat?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:08:53]:
Hi everybody. So mine was similar to Darryl. I didn't know I wanted to do higher ed. And so my first job was actually in admissions. And so I was in on the academic side as well. And it all started with A director of advising had suggested that I go into higher ed. I just didn't realize that you could actually work in higher ed. I don't know where I thought all the people I worked with as an undergrad came from, but I started in admissions and started working my way through.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:09:17]:
So my first true student affairs job was really about 7 years later when I was director of the Multicultural Center. And then I continued to work at the University of Arkansas, total of 15 years. My last role was the College of Engineering, as Spencer had talked about. So I worked with engineers for about 5 years. And started my doctorate while working full-time as a single mom. And then after that, I decided I couldn't stay at Arkansas longer because I needed to expand my career. So, I went to the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. I was there for 6, and then Ohio University for 4, where I was the inaugural VP for diversity and inclusion.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:09:54]:
Took a jaunt to Texas before the anti-DEI bill. I was there for a couple years, and now I'm at Montgomery College in Maryland, in Rockville, Maryland, where I'm the inaugural vice president for inclusive excellence and belonging. So, that's where My son and I landed about a year ago.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:09]:
How did the 3 of you determine that you wanted to work together to create this book?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:10:13]:
Oh my gosh. Let me just, I know Darryl will jump in, but we had been to a number of conferences and I don't know, Darryl, if it was the mid-level, but we were talking about it and the book had not been updated for a while. And so we were talking about with another colleague, Peggy, who was at, in Chicago, and we talked about how the book needs to be updated. And we'd always wanted to do a NASBA publication. We were all AVPs at the time aspiring to be VPs. And so we were even talking about I remember, Darryl, you even saying at the time, like, how do I get more involved in NASPA? Like, I'd wanna be on the board sometime. And so now I just reflect back and think, oh my gosh, he's like now the board chair. Like places we thought we were just kind of aspiring to that we talked about way back then that actually has come to fruition.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:10:57]:
And I've, you know, I talked about I had never done a book and I'd love to do something related to higher ed. And so we started getting connected with NASPA and started talking about it. So it really got really full-on just a few years ago where we had to identify authors and those types of things. But Darryl and I had been colleagues for a long time, and then we brought in Spencer as part of a faculty lens because we wanted to make sure we had that lens. And actually, Spencer and I just did the Mid-Level Administrators Conference in Rhode Island in June. So we had— that was the first time we had presented together, but the first time we'd actually met each other in person. So it was pretty cool.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:32]:
Oh my gosh.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:11:32]:
It was all kind of come full circle. Yeah. So it's pretty cool.
C. Spencer Platt [00:11:36]:
I feel like I'm the least likely person to be speaking on this. this because I felt like so much had been going on that I didn't know about. I think you guys had all those conversations. And then how I really came into this was Darryl and I had done our first edited book before, you know, way back in what, uh, 2015 or so?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:11:53]:
Yeah. Long time ago.
C. Spencer Platt [00:11:54]:
Yeah. Uh, From Boyhood to Manhood, looking at Black masculinity through the lifespan. And so I guess he reached out to me and he was like, hey, I'd be happy to work with you again. Happy to do another edited book. I've always been interested in NASPA, always wanted to get involved with NASPA. And, uh, and so this has really just been a, a dream come true project for me.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:12:13]:
Yeah. And I think I just would conclude with just saying how to the membership, I think what is really important is to talk about network and understanding networks and how that works, 'cause that's what you're hearing real time. I think I hear a lot of new professionals, mid-level professionals focus so much on sponsorship. Uh, that's the term I'm hearing, mentorship, but it really is about a web of people in your life that you can just call upon for different experiences. And that web continues to grow as you advance in your career. So as you move beyond mid-level and move up to senior roles, as you come into the profession, what's important is to really just find good people that you can work and do partnerships with for the rest of your career. So Spencer and I are actually already talking about the next book project that we're working on. We're working on the proposal for that now.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:13:01]:
So these things are just always evolving.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:05]:
So let's talk about the gap. You mentioned that there was a previous edition of this book, that it had been a long time since it's been updated. And I think we know in the profession that the mid-level is the largest proportion of professionals in the student affairs kind of industry overall. So let's talk about what goes into this and why this book right now.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:13:23]:
Jump in with that one first. I think even for us as editors, right, we all started our careers 20, 30 years ago and just the evolution and the nuances of higher education and particularly the work in student affairs has changed so tremendously. So when I first started my career, it really was about how do you deal with a budget? How do you supervise people? How many people do you supervise? And now you really have to think about like the political environment on campus and off campus. Where you're located, what region of the country you're located in. And so it's so much more nuanced now in the work that I think it gives— I just saw a need for this book. And when you read the book, you'll realize that, that we really tried to write a book for professionals now that goes beyond the scope. I know how to do a budget, right? So we have one chapter in there, a great chapter by Sylvia Maddox, that talks about being a first-generation individual and how she wasn't just the first generational student. She was a first generational person in student affairs, right? And what that really means and how that informs her work.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:14:33]:
So those kind of things, I believe, really help to bring some new perspective to the work through this book that I don't think we would've thought about 15, 20, 30 years ago.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:43]:
Gigi, you said— I'm gonna pause us here. Chris, audio note quickly. Darryl, you mentioned author named Sylvia Maddox. She's credited in the book as Sylvia Griffin. Is that a correction we need to make?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:14:53]:
That's a correction, 'cause her— that was her married name. She's since got divorced. Talk about evolution.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:59]:
You mentioned one of the chapter authors and chapters in the book, Darryl. I'm just going to share with our audience all the different topic areas that they can expect in the book, because it's such a rich dialogue happening in this, in this volume. There's a chapter on the mid-level manager's toolkit, which includes core competencies for success, politics in practice, as you all mentioned, that the political landscape has changed dramatically for how to navigate as a mid-level professional. There's a component about building intercultural resilience as a mid-level professional in global higher ed. Principled supervision, increasing success for college students of color, bridging worlds in terms of the difference of first generation, which is the one you had just mentioned, fostering wellbeing, navigating professional spaces for mid-level professionals with their own marginalized identities, rethinking the career ladder to build a future that fits an individual, adopting cultural humility, which I love that there's a chapter on this, finding your place as a volunteer. And the book closes out with a chapter on priming the pipeline for mid-level student affairs professionals Which I think is just such an important part of the conversation we're having right now on ensuring the longevity of our profession. Is there anything that you'd like to highlight as editors about what readers might want to focus on or what to expect from some of this dialogue in the book?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:16:12]:
Well, I'll say I thought it was so helpful because, you know, for people who are just really needing a toolkit, you can really jump into any chapter. So it's not necessarily a progressive thing where you have to think, okay, I got to read the whole thing. If you're short on time, if you're wanting to read something specifically on supervision, you can jump in on that chapter. Or as you mentioned, Jill, the piece about cultural humility and the wellbeing part. I mean, I really love— there's a chapter where we talk about how, with supervisors, you can't really help people from an empty cup. So really talking about your own wellbeing as a supervisor and how you can better supervise people if you yourself are taking care of yourself and doing self-care things that you need to do in these roles. Because I think that's something that, again, 20 years ago when we were mid-level, that we didn't really think about because we were so focused on supervising or learning how to do budgets or how to do politics. And we weren't worried about the national landscape in higher ed.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:17:07]:
So I think that that's the thing that's been helpful. And what I will share too, real quickly, is that, you know, we ran into professionals who've already utilized the book as part of retreats or even as part of book clubs. And I think that's been kind of an eye-opening thing for me to know that people are already utilizing it in that way.
C. Spencer Platt [00:17:24]:
I think one of my favorite things about this whole project was just how real it is to folks who would read it and where I come really well with— it's in a space where not many other books are, and it fits in well with their life course, their place in life and in their careers, as well as the academic literature. So I just felt like it was a project that— it is a project that just kind of checked a lot of boxes and was really useful and real in ways that oftentimes you just don't find.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:18:26]:
One of the things we intentionally did, you'll see for most of the chapters, there are co-authors and sometimes 3 authors. What we wanted to do was make sure that the mid-level voice was prevalent. So if there was a senior-level person that was writing the chapter, they had to find a mid-level that they would co-write the chapter with. We were very specific about that. And I think that was really helpful because not only did it provide opportunities for folks that might not have an opportunity to write or write later in their career, it also gave some really great, to Spencer's point, nuances between where people are in their academic and professional life. And so, that span and that continuity, we thought was really important in the book.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:08]:
I really like that element because it gives a great opportunity for mid-level professionals who maybe are early in their writing careers to attach to someone who's more experienced. But it also is a great not about us without us moment. We want to make sure that that mid-level voice— we're not writing about or advising mid-level professionals without understanding the experience of a current mid-level professional.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:19:27]:
Absolutely. And I think the other part that I liked about it was that so often early in the career, we talk about in grad school, you need to move up in the profession. And what I loved about it, and especially was reiterated at the Mid-Level Administrators Conference, is that it's okay to stay in the middle if you want to continue to stay at the director level or the mid-level. You don't necessarily have to use it as a springboard to become a VP, and it's okay to stay in, in that space depending on what your lifestyle is and being okay with being in the middle too. And you can also use it as an opportunity to move up if you choose What are some of the best practical pieces of advice in the book?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:20:01]:
What's important about the book is that I think individuals can find themselves in the book wherever they are professionally. I think that the book leaves some times for reflection for senior-level folks, because sometimes we get so caught up now in cabinet-level work and institutional-level work that it gives us sometimes a disconnect from sometimes our staff, sometimes our students. And I think this book allows for you to be able to hear the voices of individuals individuals. So I know one of the authors, Veronica, and I can't remember her co-author right now, but they wrote a chapter on the importance of being mid-level and what that really means. And I think senior-level people need to hear that. We also, the cultural competencies have just, or will soon be released. They have been rewritten. They hadn't been written in about 15 years.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:20:50]:
And so it's 10 to 15 years. And so the first chapter is on competencies and that sense of competency and what it means to be a competent leader is the cornerstone. Like, that's why it's the first chapter, right? Because everything revolves around the competencies and how you confidently go into your job understanding what you need as a basis for being able to do the work. And so I think those 2 things stood out for me.
C. Spencer Platt [00:21:14]:
Again, this just might be me, but I think one of the things that I, I see between the lines is that oftentimes you just hear climb, climb, climb, grind, grind, grind, manage, manage, manage, manage this, manage that, manage your emotions. But we also take time to try to find some balance and figure out, okay, who Who am I and what do I want out of my career, my goals, my life? And, you know, I think that part is important, but oftentimes overlooked.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:21:39]:
I really liked the part about in the supervision chapter, because as I was meeting people around the book, they really were craving something around supervision. And I liked the whole idea the authors brought in around red lights getting redder. So when you start to supervise people, you'll remember that part. You know, these are kind of the early warning signs that you think, oh, it'll be okay. It'll go away if I don't address it. And as you know, the longer you're in the profession, the The more you realize, okay, if you kind of did detect a behavior that could possibly be problematic, it's probably better to address it early than waiting till later.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:11]:
There are 2 really practical appendices in the book. I think those are the pieces that I think are easy to pull out. One is a supervision matrix that talks about kind of key elements of your personality as a supervisor, as well as how you want to execute the exercise of supervision. And then there's another one that's really just more of a reflective, reflexive exercise on who am I as a person and a professional. And I think we think about these things conceptually. conceptually a lot of the time, but it's very different when you see it kind of practically laid out in front of you.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:22:39]:
Yes, I totally agree, Jean. How you work when coming into the role, how you can explain that to people. If you need to be off, do you check your calendar? You know, I've known managers who want to micromanage people and like, you weren't here at this time, and other managers who never look at anybody else's calendar. So it's really a nice way to outline expectations if you're a first-time supervisor or you're having trouble supervising people to utilize those tools at the back. I thought that was really helpful.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:03]:
We know the profession is evolving quickly and daily. with the landscape around us evolving quickly and daily. Is there anything that's come out in this edition that you're already thinking about revising for a future edition?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:23:14]:
We appreciate your confidence. Not for publication. We need a new one.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:23:18]:
We need a new one.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:23:21]:
Thank you, Jill. I actually can tell you, I've been kicking around an idea. I think this group of editors would be great, and I'd like to pull in maybe one or two more people. But I'll tell you something I'm really interested in exploring is what happens when you get displaced. So much of our identity and our grind, as Spencer said, are tied to the work. And so I've been thinking a lot about my colleagues who did DEI work, and now we were so passionate about that for so many years, and so many people that went into that work it was an extension of their own identity, right? So you were either a part of the queer community, or you were Asian Pacific, or African American. And so it wasn't just work, it was your values, and your background, and your belonging. And then almost overnight, it feels, that was taken away.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:24:19]:
And so I'm really interested to hear that voice, like, where do those people land? Like, I'm hearing some of them are moving into a third sector, And some of them are having to decide, I wanna move to a whole nother region of the country. You know, Gigi kind of experienced some of that moving into where she is, different institutional types. So where did those people land? How did they restore themselves and recover? And what is the pathway forward? Because although we don't call it that any, you know, anymore, the students are still coming. First-generation, Pell-eligible, students from rural backgrounds are still coming to our campuses. And so how do we— support them still? And then what new ways do we support them? I think that's what's really important.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:25:00]:
And also, you know, how do you support them in spaces where a state is red and you're not allowed to do certain things? Like Darryl said, the students are still coming and you're at HSIs or you're at predominantly Black institutions. How do you continue to support those students when, you know, the legislature is telling you you can't do it in that way anymore, or you're starting to get silenced in the classroom? around sanitizing the language that you can use in the classroom, specifically around students of color or different groups. I just think that it's been very difficult. And he mentioned, I know a number of people that I used to work with who are currently still out of a job and still looking for ways to pivot. And we did touch on, you know, how to support students of color in the book and through that cultural resiliency and things like that. But then I think, as Daryl said, if there were future editions, it would also balance that piece around what were the professionals that also experiencing at the time. And just as we mentioned, how do you continue? You know, it's hard to pour from an empty cup when you're already dealing with so many personal things and professional things. And as Darryl said, it was such— for me, I was out of work for 9 months trying to find a job.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:26:07]:
And then I was a year into the job at Texas, and then the year to the day where I was told that the job was shifting to something else because the bill had passed like 3 weeks before. So we were like, right at the bullseye of all of that anti-DEI stuff and having to kind of climb back out of that and trying to really find your space. Do you pivot to something completely different, or how do you reinvent your career really when you've been kind of spending the majority of your professional career in these roles?
C. Spencer Platt [00:26:33]:
I agree with both, both of you on that as well. And I came from the University of Texas, and a lot of the work I did at University of Texas was in that area. And a lot of my friends and colleagues are going through a lot of what you just talked about. Another area that I think about a lot. And it reminds me of a conversation I was having with Darryl. And we were talking about, talking about the book. And he said, what about you, Spence? You're in the middle as faculty. And I kind of didn't think of it that way.
C. Spencer Platt [00:27:00]:
I was like, oh no, as faculty, we don't really, you know, it's not really a middle. I was like, what was I thinking? I was completely wrong on that. And I don't even know how that thought crossed my mind that associate professors aren't in the middle, but clearly being wrong there. And that's an area to explore and to dive into, and I think it can speak to a lot of people's experiences as well.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:21]:
When we think about leading from the middle, is there one thing that you want our mid-level professionals who are listening to this episode right now to take away from this work?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:27:29]:
I would offer 2 things. I think, one, you have to lead in your own authentic way. And I can remember my very first boss, one of my best bosses, his name was Gerald Massenburg. He's since retired. Hey, Gerald! His daughter is actually in the field. And Gerald just had a different style than I did, and we had a crisis. It was a small crisis, but it was a crisis. And I tried to do it the way Gerald would've done it.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:27:54]:
And I actually cursed. I said, this will never happen again. You know, whatever. And then I turned around, and at that time, my student worker, student assistant, he was the SGA president, he was this intern, student intern, and my associate director over operations, the look that they gave me made me realize Like, I will never do that again. Like, I will always handle a situation like Darryl needs to handle a situation. And I'll use my own barometer of integrity, forthrightness, and those types of things. The second thing everyone has to acknowledge, 'cause we all carry it, that little 5-year-old girl, boy, or other inside of us that we carry into every room, into every situation, because minimizing that and being— and not even minimizing, but being aware of that helps you to overcome the insecurities. We're all in the room with some kind of insecurity.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:28:55]:
And so, I really— that little, at that time, closeted, gay elementary kid at C.W. Hill, who didn't really understand what that big term was. We didn't use gay back then, and so there were a lot of derogatory terms. And I can remember being in the first grade, and someone's— they didn't call me a derogatory term. They just said, why do you act like a little girl? And I didn't know what that meant. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, what? I'm not wearing a dress. I'm not— I don't know what that is.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:29:26]:
Well, I carry that 5-year-old Darryl in every room that I go into. And so being aware of that and knowing how to navigate that and minimize that if needed, I think is what I would leave for mid-levels in particular and for student affairs professionals overall. Because I do think our profession is under crisis. And I think we gotta figure out how we better survive.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:50]:
Sure thing. So, I'm just wondering what you'd like mid-level professionals who read this book to take away from this in terms of the big message or a central theme, or just kind of one nugget that you really think will add value to them reading this work.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:30:06]:
I would say that as a takeaway that you don't have to move up. I mean, I know I said that earlier, but I think that, you know, as I, as I was personally going through grad school, I just kept hearing hearing, you know, we need to move up, you need to be a VP, you need to be president, blah, blah, blah. But as we were going through the book, I just thought, and then in hearing it, it was validated by people who were actually doing the work, that it's okay to not move up. I mean, an analogy that I'll share is that I've always used the presidency as kind of the sun. And then the closer you get to the sun, the hotter that it gets. And there are some that my mentors who retired as directors of student centers or things like that, that I used to always wonder, like, why Why did she never want to move up? And then as I, even as I moved into the AVP role, I realized, oh, that's why. Because you don't have to deal with the higher level stuff that we have to deal with. And it's okay to like fly under the radar and be in the moment and not have to look at institution-wide at the things that broadly that the campus has to look at.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:31:01]:
You can focus in on just your area and that's okay. I think making that a place that it's okay to do that and that there doesn't need to be this struggle to be like, okay, what's my next job going to be? What am I going to do next? When am I going to get the doctorate? Constantly planning your life in that way where there's a rush. rush or a timeline to something. I'd say that, you know, be— continue to learn where you are and where you are. We always tell students, we need to meet you where you are, but as professionals, we also need to meet them where they are and not try to rush them through and be like, okay, you need to be on this X-year trajectory to become a VP, because it's not always going to work out. It's like going to the pros for NBA or NFL. Not everybody's going to be a VP. That's something.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:31:41]:
So, keeping that in mind.
C. Spencer Platt [00:31:43]:
I love the points that both of you made, and I'm probably right in there with both of you. And I'm trying to think, okay, how can I say something that's a little different? And, you know, I guess the thing that comes to me is along with finding yourself and not necessarily chasing the dream that everybody thinks you should have is, is, is finding, you know, find your love, find your passion within the field. And I'm reminded that your love and your passion doesn't always have to look a certain kind of way. I think about my research passions and different things of that nature, or when I'm advising folks on trying to find a dissertation topic. My advice to them in that situation is the same. It's finding your passion. And your passion, sometimes it's the stuff that you love. You know, you just love to read it because you get a sense of joy out of it.
C. Spencer Platt [00:32:23]:
And then sometimes it's like, okay, well, this is the fight I want to be in. I want to stand up. I want to stand in the gap for these communities, these populations, this issue. This— there might be something going on that really irritates or angers you or whatever, but it spurs you to get off the sidelines and get involved and move. So I think every person should try to find that within themselves. And, you know, there's some soul searching. And so if you can find that in your work, if you can find that in your work, find it. If, if you need to move to find that, move, but try to get that.
C. Spencer Platt [00:32:53]:
And at the same time, to Gigi's point, you don't have to chase other people's dreams. If other people may be trying to be the president or vice president, but hey, I like being right here. You know, it's okay to be right there, whether it's in at that level of an institution or that city or whatever the case might be. We all gotta walk our own walks and live our own lives, right?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:33:14]:
And I think also to what Darrell spoke to earlier, Jill, about the networking part. I mean, I was at the same institution for 15 years, and the thing that really brought me out of that was really continuing to network with people at NASPA. I mean, that's not even just because we're doing the NASPA podcast, but that really helped to expand my professional network. That's how I met Darrell. That's how I met Spencer. That's how I met other people through the NASPA network. I mean, I started out as a mid-level professional and continued to work through NASPA, getting at the regional level, you know, at conferences and then mid-level institutes and things like that, the APP Institute, and you continue to grow your network. And I think that's also the important thing is continue to expand your network outside of where you currently work.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:56]:
Is there anything else that you want listeners to know about the book that we haven't gotten a chance to talk about yet?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:34:01]:
I think just find yourself in the book, right? And, and don't look at it as if like, this is a template that I need and And this alone is gonna guide me. It's a manual. No, it's more about an ideological way of you affirming who you are as a professional. And then the way we constructed the book, we tried to do it from a standpoint that it's not a manual, that it really is like this life guide that you can use at whatever level you're at. We just focused on mid-levels. As we're having this conversation, and Spencer was talking about, and Gigi just was talking about her journey, I just realized I jumped into student affairs as a mid-level. I wasn't an RD, I wasn't a program coordinator. Like when I got in true, pure student affairs work, I was a mid-level, I was a director.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:34:51]:
And so there are many different pathways into the work and there are many different exits out of the work. And I think to Spencer's point, just enjoy whatever you're doing in that moment. And what I see now, and I can't remember if Gigi said this or Spencer, I think it was Spencer, we are so grinding. Everybody Everybody's on the grind. My 16-year-old son said yesterday, oh, Dad, life is just lifin'. I'm like, you 16? You ain't got no life. Like, I am your life. So, you know, like, just, just slow down a little bit and pace yourself and be proud of where you are now and learn the lessons where you are now.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:35:24]:
And the rest of the things will come.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:35:27]:
I think it's hard for people to, like, lean into where they are because there's— you can be so focused on where you want to go. And it's like, you got to be really good at the thing that you're in right now and do really good at that. Like, I still talk about my first job as an recruiter. I still talk about that in interviews and in my work. And I think that the more you kind of learn those roles, the better that you'll be the later you are in your career.
C. Spencer Platt [00:35:49]:
Especially if you hold onto the lessons and you learn from it, right? I mean, and you're the best you can be at those, to your point, Gigi.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:55]:
Once again, the book is In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs. We're going to transition now to talking about our theme for the season, which is enhancing the career pathways and wellbeing of student affairs professionals. So I have 2 questions for you and would love to hear your thoughts on each. Our first question is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing a supervisor can do to enhance the career pathway of people they are charged with leading?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:36:22]:
The one thing I would say, the easy thing is to hire people that don't have the same skills that you do. And then 2, once you hire those people, please let them do their job and not micromanage them. I think that's so important. I'll just add really quickly, when I quit the job where I had the worst micromanager, manager, Jill, I literally said, she said, we'd really like you to stay on. And I said, well, and I shared this at the conference, I was like, you know, since you wanna do my job, I wanna get out of your way so you can do your job and my job. I'm out. So I just think that's really important for supervisors to realize that you need to let people do their job, let them do the job you hired them to do.
C. Spencer Platt [00:36:59]:
I don't know if these are easy or hard. I mean, well, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is one, you gotta care. And it should be easy, but I guess for some people it, it, it might be hard to care about the folks who work for them. So to care and then be invested in trying to help them succeed, right? So if that's providing opportunities, helping them build networks or whatever, but the investment that you need to do can be, you know, it takes some effort, right? And it's probably not necessarily part of the daily work. So that's probably a little harder for folks, but the care part should be easy.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:37:30]:
I think for me, the easy part is to just remain kind. And I think unkindness Kindness is something that you actually have to work at doing. Kindness just comes natural to us, right? When you think about babies, and they just kind of— 1 year old, and they like— you say, can I have some of your bottle? And they give you the bottle, right? That's just— it's innate in us to be kind. And so, as you go through this work, just remain kind. That's an easy thing to do. The harder thing, I think, to do is that we have become a profession and actually an industry that is so governed by politics and regulatory issues and compliance that we have lost 3 critical, important things which brought us to the work in the first place. And that is people, community, and care. And so even as we have these regulatory decisions that we have to make and these, these strong influences that are now in the space, the work.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:38:30]:
People, community, and care are at the root of what brought us in. And so I hear a lot of people talk about joy and we've lost the joy in student affairs and we can't find it. It's not that we've lost the joy, we've misaligned the joy and we've aligned the joy to the regulations and to the compliance and to the political interventions that we face. But I would suggest that we pull back deeply into those 3 things, people, community, and care. care, because that's where our joy is. That's why we do the work that we do.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:03]:
Our second question is, what might VPSAs need to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not already thinking about?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:39:12]:
Vicky said it, let people do their dang jobs. Like, just stop, stop micromanaging people. Stop being fearful that people are gonna get you in trouble. Allow people to develop and grow. You don't have to make a decision in the room all the time. And I, I told a group this yesterday. I was talking to another NASPA group this— unless you're cracking open the chest and you're pumping a heart back to life, whatever decision you make is not going to be the end of the world, right? So if you decide 2 roommates need to separate out of their residence hall, it's not going to end the life. Support your staff in their decisions.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:39:50]:
Support your staff and let them have the creativity and space to make Because learning how to overcome a mistake is innovation, is creativity, is assurance. So let people make mistakes. It's okay. And stop being so scared.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:40:07]:
I totally sign in on that one, Darrell. I mean, I'd also say, I think as a VPSA, people expect you to know everything and you're not gonna know everything. And being able to admit sometimes that vulnerability that, okay, I don't know everything. Can we, can we talk about it more? And also not leading from a space of fear. I think that that really is hard. harmful to the entire organization when people lead from fear, whether it was because something happened earlier in your career or former bosses got let go and then they got into another institution. When constantly leading from fear is detrimental to the rest of the staff, being afraid to make a mistake, that leads to not wanting to make a mistake and then making sure that everything's perfect and everything is not being perfect. And as Darryl said, we are not saving lives like medical professionals.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:40:52]:
So whatever the Everything is, to something I found on Pinterest yesterday, everything is figureoutable. So we can all figure out how to go. There's always a different way to go. There's always a different path we can take and we don't have to focus on that. And I think to another point that Spencer made, the care piece also does not always require money. Like just showing you care every day, remembering birthdays, remembering people's names. I mean, I've worked with people, their bots still don't remember their name or can't pronounce their name correctly. So, I'm like, care doesn't always require financial things.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:41:24]:
It could just be, just showing up is really important.
C. Spencer Platt [00:41:26]:
So, I've never been a VP like, like you guys have. So, in many ways, it's from the outside looking in. But, you know, the thing that I always really enjoyed about the VPs that I've known and, and, and really enjoyed working with, working for, has been, you know, like how accessible sometimes people can be. You know, I think sometimes you see folks and it's like they got a wall around them. You, like, you can't even get an email That's more than 15 words. They're like, well, just call me. I really enjoy, and I think people really enjoy, VPs that they can, you know, they can talk to. And these folks are able to expound on things and help folks understand their vision, their philosophy in ways that are robust and feel authentic and real.
C. Spencer Platt [00:42:10]:
And so they feel like real people, not just some robot administrator. So I would encourage folks to— you're already real. So just be real with the people who are working with and for you is my suggestion.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:22]:
Spencer, and I can say, I appreciate your perspective, I think, even more because you've not occupied that seat. And this question will be more or less consistent for all of our guests this season, whether they're in their very first job or whether they're sitting in the VPSA seat, kind of with this idea that VPSAs are holding the culture of wellbeing in their leadership style. There's an ultimate responsibility across the organization and anyone who holds a supervisory role, but that culture begins, I think, with that VPSA seat. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:59]:
Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The Women's Leadership Institute is happening on December 9th through the 11th at Agnes Scott College in Atlanta, Georgia. The Women's Leadership Institute is presenting Next Up. It's a 3-day workshop designed for women who seek new networking experiences and opportunities that offer strategies to lead in higher education. The topic of the Women's Leadership Institute is on Leading Forward: Women's Leadership for What's Next. Leading Forward brings forward women from all roles and career stages to explore what it means to lead with clarity, purpose, and sustainability. You can learn more about the keynotes, interactive workshops, and intentional networking that provide you with practical leadership strategies to bring back to your campus with topics such as Influence, Advocacy, and Getting to Yes, to New Strengths Leaders Need for What's Next, Leadership Networks and Strategic Relationships, and Sustainable Leadership and Personal Capacity.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:05]:
These are only some of the sessions that will be found at the Leadership Institute. And if you have never checked this out, I highly encourage you to register or check it out today. You can find out more at acui.org. There's a brand new issue of the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education available to you as a member of NASPA. The Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education publishes scholarship that centers around gender-based experiences experiences of students, faculty, and staff while examining oppression, including but not limited to patriarchy, sexism, trans oppression, and systemality as they interact with other systems of domination. The journal is particularly interested in manuscripts that not only focus on a gender-based group but also critically interrogate the ways in which gender has been used as a construct to limit opportunities and shape outcomes and experiences. The journal publishes high-quality and rigorous scholarship that can be used by NASPA members and others to transform daily practice, research, and the field of higher education. As I said, Volume 19, Issue 3 is now available.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:12]:
If you go to the NASPA website under Publications, you can access this and all of the journals that are available to you as a member of NASPA. NASPA recently signed on to a coalition letter raising concerns about the current iteration of S.4428, the No Aid for Ghost Students Act. While NASPA supports efforts to prevent financial aid fraud and address ghost students, the bill's proposed fraud detection and identity verification requirements could create unintended barriers for legitimate students, particularly those already facing challenges accessing higher education. If you want to read the entire letter of concern, you can find that in the policy hub on the NASPA website. As you continue to think about attending the 2027 NASPA Annual Conference, know that there are a few different focus areas that the conference will be focused on in the proposals that are being submitted, as well as the things you're going to see while you're at the conference. And the 3 interconnected focus areas for NASPA's 2027 conference include leveraging the business of student affairs, the human-digital continuum leading with intention in a tech-driven the World, and Adapting with Purpose: An Agency in a New Era of Student Affairs. While we are past the submission deadline for submitting a program for the conference, as you prepare to go to the conference, know that individuals have been asked to look at these 3 areas while they were submitting their programs. So the programs that you're going to see at the conference itself will be focused around those different And if you have yet to register for the 2027 conference, it's not too late.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:54]:
I encourage you to get your conference registration in. The conference is going to be happening March 6th through the 10th in National Harbor, Maryland. It's going to be a great time. And if you've never been to National Harbor, you definitely don't want to miss it. And it's going to be a great opportunity for you to be able to reconnect with friends, develop new relationships, and also find new people. peers from across the nation that you can connect with, learn from, and learn things that you can bring back to your own campus so that you can be a better practitioner that will help your institution and help you to better serve your students. So if you haven't signed up yet, go to the NASPA website, click under events to find out more. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:38]:
So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's It's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:55]:
Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in Chris, thank you so much for helping us understand what's going on in and around NASPA. We always appreciate your updates. And now we have reached our lightning round. And with Darryl being a second-time guest on the pod, we have slightly different questions for him. So, Darryl, are you ready to go?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:16]:
I am ready.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:17]:
All right. Question 1, would you like to keep or change your entrance music song from last time?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:23]:
You can change it.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:24]:
What would you like your entrance music song to be?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:26]:
They're not like us.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:28]:
Question 2, what was your undergrad degree and do you use it in your work now?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:32]:
I got a Bachelor of Arts in English and probably not as much as I thought.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:37]:
Number 3, your current guilty pleasure TV show binge?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:41]:
Oh my God, Ted Lasso.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:43]:
That film is just right down the street from where I live.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:45]:
Oh my God, I'm visiting you.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:46]:
Question 4, if someone ever visits your city, what's one place they must eat?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:50]:
Mary Mac's on Ponce de Leon.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:52]:
Number 5, your favorite work-related podcast?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:55]:
Obama's new podcast, and I can't remember the name, but it goes over all, like, the 5 books that he thinks have shaped his life. That's been amazing.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:04]:
Number 6, your favorite not work-related podcast?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:50:07]:
Oh, my God. There is this podcast, and I'm really bad with names, so— but it's this— I love history, and so there's this podcast, it's actually in the UK, and they talk about the World War II era and the war of World War II and the Nazi regime. That's just fascinating to me.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:24]:
And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?
Darryl B. Holliman [00:50:28]:
Yes, I do. I would like to give a shout out to Lamar Hilton and to Mike Christakis, who are past board chair and board chair-elect, because at a very dark period of my professional career, they introduced me to soccer during FIFA. And, and without them and without their support and guidance, not only would I have my renowned love of soccer and football, they really helped me, and I appreciate it.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:55]:
Thank you, Darryl. You've made it to the end of your questions. And so now we are on to our lightning round with Gigi and Spencer. You ready to go?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:02]:
We are ready.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:04]:
All right. Question 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:08]:
I really love Best Friend by Doja Cat and Saweetie. She's half Filipino, so that's my jam.
C. Spencer Platt [00:51:13]:
I think I would choose Superstar by Luther Vandross.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:17]:
Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:20]:
Oh gosh, I wanted to be a doctor.
C. Spencer Platt [00:51:21]:
I wanted to be a GI Joe. I wanted to be a soldier.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:23]:
You know, number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:27]:
I would say Sylvia Scott. She was the director of student activities at Arkansas, and she's been retired for a while, but I still talk to her every week.
C. Spencer Platt [00:51:34]:
Probably Sean Harper. I don't talk to him as much as, as much, but he's really been helpful to me at some really critical points in my career.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:41]:
Number 4, your essential student affairs read. And you can say your own book if you want to.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:46]:
Yeah, for right now it's in the middle for sure, but I really like, there's a book, Lean In. That's really good. It's not necessarily student affairs, but I love leadership books generally and self-help books.
C. Spencer Platt [00:51:56]:
Yeah, I'm gonna say In the Middle too, and probably the other book Darryl and I did, From Boyhood to Manhood.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:02]:
Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:52:05]:
I had to go back and do Hawaii Five-O, Jill. Not the old one, but the one from like 10 years ago. I'm binge watching that one.
C. Spencer Platt [00:52:12]:
I can't remember the name of the show, but it's with the Wayans brothers and Pops. Oh, I think it's the Just recently, I just started watching that for some reason. I just like pop, you know?
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:21]:
Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:52:25]:
Okay. So I'll, I'll admit, Jill, I haven't listened to any podcasts. I love Michelle Obama's. I've heard of them. I read about them, but I've actually not listened to one except for hers once.
C. Spencer Platt [00:52:35]:
With podcasts, I listen to whatever my wife's listening to and she's got me into, you know, when I'm in the car with her, she listens to Keke Palmer.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:42]:
Oh yeah. That's a great one.
C. Spencer Platt [00:52:44]:
I just love their energy with, with that show.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:47]:
And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:52:51]:
Oh, I'll give a shoutout to my son Jonah. He just graduated from Montgomery College. He's going to be going to the University of Maryland in the fall. So shoutout to Jonah and also my family back in Arkansas.
C. Spencer Platt [00:53:00]:
I want to give a shoutout to my wife, Andrea, and my 2 sons. Miles just made the football team 2 days ago at his middle school. He was really stressed out about that and he's excited he made it. And, uh, you know, Miles and Jackson.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:13]:
Thank you all for taking the time to share with us the journey of this book and how folks can approach it. If anyone would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:53:22]:
My Montgomery College email, it's gg.Secuban@montgomerycollege.edu.
C. Spencer Platt [00:53:27]:
My work email, splat@mailbox.sc.edu.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:32]:
It's a good one, splat. It's like a noise.
Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:53:34]:
Good.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:53:35]:
Yeah, it is a noise. Yeah.
Darryl B. Holliman [00:53:37]:
Yeah, probably the best way to reach me is through LinkedIn. I'm always checking that out.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:40]:
Thank you all so very much for sharing your voices with us. Thank you.
Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:53:44]:
Thank you so much, Jill. It was so fun.
C. Spencer Platt [00:53:47]:
Yeah. Thanks for having us.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:49]:
This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at savoices@nasp.org, or You can find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:54:18]:
We'd love it if you spend a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community, to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me.
Dr. Jill Creighton [00:54:34]:
Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan-Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.