Ep. 225 (Part 2 of 2) | In Part 2 of our eloquent, passionate, and humorous, dialogue with comedian John Fugelsang, author of the important and irreverent book, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds, we come to understand what fundamentalism is, and what it signifies for our culture, our politics, and our future. John outlines five common features that characterize fundamentalism across religious traditions, pointing out that fundamentalist Christians have more in common with fundamentalist Muslims than they do with moderate and liberal Christians. “I go after fundamentalists of all religions,” John says, “because it’s turning people off to faith—ruining Christianity, ruining Islam, ruining Judaism.” This is the tragedy for John and what fuels his passion for calling out the hypocrites who do hateful things in the name of religion.
John also enlightens us as to what Christian nationalism is all about, starting way back: “In the U.S., our history of Christianity is inseparable from our history of white supremacy.” Christian nationalism’s religion is power—a gospel of domination over love. Authoritarian leaders and their followers all worship power, he continues, and fills us in on how Christian nationalism is playing out in Russia now. John’s own message is not hateful; his intention is to make it clear that Jesus always taught love and kindness; to suggest that if the Church wants to survive, it needs to go back to the teachings of Jesus; and to help us come together in a common understanding of fundamental values. “It’s hard to love the bigot in your family,” John says. But we can “…hold to the deepest values, the most love, and do what needs to be done with love. We can’t hate the haters back, but we have to beat them without hating them—that’s the challenge.” Recorded December 18, 2025.
“The greatest tragedy to me is when people think that something is religion and don’t realize it’s just fundamentalism.”
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John Fugelsang is the author of the New York Times bestseller SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND HATE: A Sane Person’s Guide To Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds. He has been murdered on CSI and picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church. John is a Drama League–nominated actor, comedian, and broadcaster, who’s hosted many TV shows and podcasts, including the acclaimed Tell Me Everything series on SiriusXM Progress.
He got George Harrison to give his final performance on VH1, debated Jerry Falwell and David Duke, and made many appearances on MSNBC, FOX News, and CNN. His epic PBS road trip film on the American Dream, Dream On, directed by Roger Weisberg, was named Best Documentary at the New York Independent Film Festival. Fugelsang lives in New York City with his family.
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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell