Ep. 224 (Part 1 of 2) | John Fugelsang, author of the brilliant, irreverent book, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds, talks eloquently about the difference between true Christianity as taught by Jesus and the hateful teachings of Christian nationalists and televangelists who are in it for the power and the money. John grew up with a clear notion of what Christianity should look like; his parents lived their faith grounded in peace, love, empathy, and service, dedicating their lives to helping people in need, no matter their color or differences. So John set out to take the Bible back from “small-minded, right-wing, nationalist racists,” because he finds it tragic that vast numbers of people are being alienated from faith altogether, and he wanted to give his readers arguments they could use to face off with right-wing Christians about what the Bible really says. Christians and atheists have told him his book validates all of their beliefs, and he has inspired crowds of atheists to cheer loudly for Jesus.
John is an actor, comedian, and talk show host, and his quick wit and well-informed, well-intentioned intellect make for a fast-paced, enjoyable, and educational foray into subjects such as how right-wing nationalists have made Christianity out to be a religion of condemnation and domination; how they quote Saint Paul, with all of his sex hangups and homophobia, rather than Jesus; and how it’s always been the Christ followers pushing back against authoritarian Christianity—adding that Jesus’ teachings are as threatening to authoritarian power today as they were 2,000 years ago. This is a timely, very important conversation about a subject that involves all of us: reclaiming the foundational values of love, humility, open-mindedness, and service. Recorded December 18, 2025.
“Jesus is not about condemnation or domination; his whole movement is about transformation.”
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John Fugelsang is the author of the New York Times bestseller SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND HATE: A Sane Person’s Guide To Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds. He has been murdered on CSI and picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church. John is a Drama League–nominated actor, comedian, and broadcaster, who’s hosted many TV shows and podcasts, including the acclaimed Tell Me Everything series on SiriusXM Progress.
He got George Harrison to give his final performance on VH1, debated Jerry Falwell and David Duke, and made many appearances on MSNBC, FOX News, and CNN. His epic PBS road trip film on the American Dream, Dream On, directed by Roger Weisberg, was named Best Documentary at the New York Independent Film Festival. Fugelsang lives in New York City with his family.
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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell