If you're job hunting in 2025 and aiming for roles at top companies, this might be the best podcast you'll watch all year.
Phyl Terry (Author of “Never Search Alone” book, loved by thousands of PMs) shares the overlooked system used by top execs, Google VPs, and senior operators to actually get hired even in the toughest job markets.
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Key Takeaways
* Everyone gets job search anxiety. Yes, everyone. Even Google VPs and C-level executives feel insecure when looking for work. This universal anxiety is precisely why you need support during the process.
* Group support flips anxiety into strength. Meeting weekly with a group of 4-5 job seekers creates accountability and shifts emotions from insecurity to hope, motivation, and confidence. Basically the four key elements you need for a successful search.
* Think of yourself as the product you're selling. "Candidate market fit" applies product thinking to your job search by finding where your skills intersect with market demand, just like product-market fit.
* Being specific about your target role increases opportunities. Counter to intuition, narrowing your focus (like "Director of Product at a Series B health tech company") makes you more memorable to your network and helps you stand out to recruiters.
* The "spray and pray" approach is a waste of energy. Sending resumes everywhere without focusing on candidate market fit is like launching products without understanding customers. Yes, it does feel productive but it rarely works.
* Ask others how they see your strengths. Your "listening tour" means gathering honest feedback from former colleagues and recruiters about where your skills actually fit in today's market.
* Create a "Job Mission with OKRs" document for interviews. This draft shows how you think about the role's responsibilities and objectives, demonstrating initiative and competence while clarifying expectations before accepting the job.
* First negotiate what you need to succeed. When receiving an offer, first discuss what you need to achieve the agreed objectives (team training, technical debt resolution, resources). This is something that greatly impresses employers and sets you up for future success.
* Always ask permission before introductions. Instead of sending cold introductions, ask your contact to first request permission from the target person. As this shows respect and dramatically increases response rates.
* Market conditions change what jobs you can get. During economic downturns, you may need to target lower positions than during boom times, but that’s okay. Since, in the long term it’s your adaptability that keeps your career advancing despite market shifts.
Check it out on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube.
Where to Find Phyl
LinkedIn: Phyl Terry
Website: phyl.org
Book: Never Search Alone
Related Podcasts:
Diego Granados (AI PM at Google) - The Ultimate Guide to Your Next Product Management Job
Dr. Nancy Li - Everything You Need To Know About 2025 Job Search Masterclass
Collin Lernell - How to Get a Product Leadership Job
Up Next
I hope you enjoyed the last episode with Aatir Abdul Rauf (where we discussed both of ours three viral posts and lessons you could learn). Up next, we have episodes with:
Matt Arbesfeld - Founder and CEO, LogRocket
Andy Carroll - 15 years in PM, Vibe Coding Expert
Roger Martin - Author, Playing to Win
Finally, check out my latest deep dive if you haven’t yet: The Art of Winning Interviews via Referral: Complete Guide
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