Ep. 170 (Part 1 of 2) | An emotionally powerful and deeply inspiring conversation with renowned embodiment and trauma educator Mark Walsh from the U.K. and Ukrainian psychologist and trauma trainer Kristina Obluchynska, where we learn about effective ways of treating trauma in the middle of an ongoing war, what trauma therapists are left holding, and how beautiful is the human spirit when it embraces right action. When Russia commenced its full-scale invasion of Ukraine three years ago, Mark went to Ukraine, located willing psychology students, educated them in body-oriented trauma therapy and training, and with Kristina and several other trainees co-founded Sane Ukraine, with the urgent mission of preventing an epidemic of trauma disorders in Ukraine. Beginning with applying trauma first aid and teaching resilience skills in places like the local railroad station where people were coming in from the front lines, and in bomb shelters, Kristina and several other psychologists have now educated thousands of people about trauma—active duty soldiers, veterans, survivors, wives of combatants, and first-line responders such as doctors, teachers, and social workers—and trained hundreds of them to become trauma trainers themselves.
It is an honor to bear witness to Mark’s courageous actions and the humble heroism of Kristina and her team in the face of the devastation being leveled on Ukraine and Ukrainians. “We don’t grieve,” Kristina tells us, “because grief comes after safety. We don’t even use the word safe anymore,” she continues, “only relatively safe.” Mark points out that modern warfare is not just running around with guns—drones hunt civilians and if you move, they kill you. “Do we all have PTSD?” the soldiers ask. With Sane Ukraine, there is someone to answer their questions and teach them what they can do to help themselves and each other. Resilience comes from relationship—from connection to self, others, nature, and spirit. Does the concept of post traumatic growth even apply considering the intensity of this war? co-host Roger wonders. At the end of this extraordinary, heartfelt conversation, when asked what we could do to help, Kristina advises, “Help the army. We are talking here about healing, but what we really need is to survive.” Recorded January 9, 2025.
“There is nothing that can prepare human psychology for modern warfare.”
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“Mr Embodiment” (Mark Walsh) is the author of The Body in Coaching and Training: An Introduction to Embodied Facilitation and Embodied Meditation. Mark hosts The Embodiment Coaching Podcast (3 million+ downloads), and led the world’s largest Zoom event, The Embodiment Conference. He founded the Embodied Facilitator Course, and has trained over 2,000 embodiment coaches in over 40 countries. Mark went to Ukraine twice during the recent conflict and set up saneukraine.org, a charity now run solely by Ukrainian professionals to provide trauma and embodiment training to trainers, therapists, and coaches. Mark has worked in war zones, and entertained over 50,000 children. He has headlined International Coach Federation events, taught at Moscow State University, and lived with the circus in Ethiopia. Mark is an aikido black belt, and has 25 years of experience in other martial arts, yoga, bodywork, improv comedy, conscious dance, and meditation. Embodiment is his obsession, life’s work, and frankly, at this point, he couldn’t get a job doing anything else.
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Kristina Obluchynska is a clinical psychologist, in the process of training to be a psychotherapist with a medical background. In her practice, Kristina integrates gestalt and body-oriented psychotherapy with trauma therapy methods, and uses nature-based therapy as well. Kristina’s main work is done with combatants and veterans and their families, as well as with first-line responders in Ukraine, such as doctors and social workers. Together with her colleagues and with Mark Walsh’s help, she co-founded Sane Ukraine, a charity foundation with more than 60 trainers that provides knowledge about trauma and psychological first aid to combatants and civilians. The full-scale invasion of Ukraine caught Kristina and her colleagues when they were Master’s Degree students at Ukrainian Catholic University, and Kristina is now an assistant at the Department of Clinical Psychology, sharing knowledge about psychological trauma and how to work with it using various approaches. Kristina loves and believes in Ukraine—she participated in the Revolution of Dignity and actively supports the Ukrainian army via psychological trainings and volunteer work.
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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell