logo
episode-header-image
Dec 2023
1h 2m

The Spirit of Music in Psychoanalysis wi...

HARVEY SCHWARTZ MD
About this episode

"The fact that music is so important for our constitution - that music is almost how we move in the world, that our own bodies are played through by musical forms, that the way we relate to our own way of being in the world is sort of mediated by music - this is powerful stuff. But it's not always very fitting to us. We hear a lot of music in our lives, we don't always choose what we hear. We don’t choose our analyst’s musicality, we don’t first check what kind of musicality an analyst has. We are bombarded by music; music can be imposed upon us, it can make us feel within ourselves in a way that doesn't feel right to us. There is a lot of complexity here as we think about this matter of music being so central to us. But we can find the music that works for us, but we don’t create the music. It belongs to the realm of collective cultural life. There is a lot of struggle in music, and in the analytic setting there is a lot of struggle - because for many patients a lot of the work rests on whether there can be any shared sensory experience or not.”

 

 

Episode Description: We begin with recognizing that the process of human musicalization begins in utero and forms the basis of much of psycho-somatic-social life. Peter, Michael and Adam’s written collaboration, Here I'm Alive - The Spirit of Music in Psychoanalysis is intended to be a musical book about psychoanalysis - a representation of how music binds us to the individual and cultural domains of life. We discuss rhythmizing consciousness, atavistic vs enhancing music, and the blues as a companion soundtrack for loss and tribulation. We take up the relationship between Freud's dream book and his joke book, how present analytic melodies contain aspects of the past, and how dissociation requires a remusicalization of the psychoanalytic situation. We close with Adam reading a paragraph which includes "The capacity of the sexual drive to propel the body back into musical movement and transmute the seizure of trauma into conducted energy to ground the current."

 

Our Guests:

 

Peter Goldberg, Ph.D., is a Personal and Supervising Analyst at the Psychoanalytic Institute of Northern California, Chair of Faculty at the San Francisco Center for Psychoanalysis, and on the faculty of the Wright Institute in Berkeley. He has presented widely and written on a range of clinical and theoretical topics, including the evolution of clinical theory in psychoanalysis, sensory experience in analysis, the concept of the analytic frame, the theory and treatment of dissociative states, non-representational states; and the impact of social trauma on individual psychology. He is in private practice in Albany, CA.

 

Michael Levin, Psy.D. is a Training Analyst and Faculty Member at the San Francisco Center for Psychoanalysis. He has taught and presented on topics including the work of Laplanche, phenomenology, and psychoanalysis, and the place of psychoanalysis in cultural and intellectual history. He is in private practice in San Francisco.

 

Adam Blum, Psy.D. is an Adjunct Faculty Member at the San Francisco Center for Psychoanalysis. He has written and presented on psychoanalysis and the music of Björk, Kendrick Lamar, Frank Ocean, Stephen Sondheim, Aretha Franklin, and Michael Jackson. He is in private practice in San Francisco.

 

 

Recommended Readings and Videos:

 

Nicholas Spice, “Winnicott and Music” (2001), in The Elusive Child, ed. Lesley Caldwell (London: Karnac, 2002). 

 

Peter Sloterdijk, “Where Are We When We Hear Music?” (2014), in The Aesthetic Imperative: Writings on Art (London: Polity, 2018).

 

Francis Grier, “Musicality in the Consulting Room,” International Journal of Psychoanalysis 100:827–51. 

 

Sondheim Teaches "My Friends" from Sweeney Todd (video) . 

 

Byung-Chul Han, The Scent of Time: A Philosophical Essay on the Art of Lingering (London: Wiley, 2017).

 

Maurice Merleau-Ponty, The Phenomenology of Perception (London: Routledge, 1962)

 

The Late Late Show with James Corden, “Paul McCartney Carpool Karaoke” (video).

 

Harmut Rosa, Resonance (Cambridge: Polity, 2019). 

 

Meshell Ndegeocello, The Omnichord Real Book (2023) (album), Blue Note Records.

 

Up next
Jul 27
From Reacting to Reflecting: "How Psychoanalysis Made Us Better Surgeons" with Mauro Vasella, MD and Flavio Vasella, MD, PhD (Zurich)
"I have had quite some reactions to the article [on their psychoanalyses]. I was also telling Mauro and my colleagues that out of quite a number of articles I've published on maybe more pressing issues in the field of cancer research, for example, brain tumor research that I've s ... Show More
51m 55s
Jul 13
'Why is This Happening in My Body'?: the meeting of/between patients' imaginings and analysts' theories with Sharone Bergner, PhD (New York)
“I really think that the purpose is to make space for the unknown, uncertainty, and for our kind of humility in the face of the complexity of our belonging to the physical world. So it's our animality, our physicality, all of that is so complicated and difficult to grapple with. ... Show More
56m 59s
Jun 29
Affairs: Exploring the Dynamic Mind with non-Clinical Readers with Juliet Rosenfeld(London)
“The subject of affairs, I think it's of interest to everybody. We have all had an Oedipal experience - we've all been babies who have at some point realized that we are not the only person. We're not perfectly fused with our mother, and she has other things to do, and there may ... Show More
59m 8s
Recommended Episodes
Jul 22
Interview: The razor-thin line between contagion and connection | Dan Taberski
After a mysterious wave of tics and twitches swept through a small-town high school in New York, documentary podcaster Dan Taberski set out to investigate what was really happening. Drawing on extensive research and intimate interviews with the people involved, he explores the ro ... Show More
29m 37s
Apr 2025
Episode 118: Resilience in the Face of Trauma: A Conversation with Dr. Myriam El-Khoury Malhame
Have you ever wondered why some people always maintain a positive attitude independent of what life brings to the table, and other people find it difficult to cope? Join us for an enlightening episode as we delve into theme of resilience and the power of positive attitudes in the ... Show More
25m 3s
Mar 2018
Episode 274: The Body Keeps The Score. Bessel A. van der Kolk, M.D.
Bessel A. van der Kolk M.D. is a clinician, researcher and teacher in the area of posttraumatic stress. His work integrates developmental, neurobiological, psychodynamic and interpersonal aspects of the impact of trauma and its treatment. Dr. van der Kolk and his various collabor ... Show More
41m 3s
Dec 2024
Pediheart Podcast #322: Hepatocellular Carcinoma And The Fontan Operation
This week we delve into the world of adult congenital heart disease to review the topic of liver disease in the Fontan patient and specifically, hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC). What is the prevalence of this disease in the Fontan single ventricle adult patient? How effective are ... Show More
26m 34s
Oct 2024
How To Heal Your Past, Improve Your Mental Wellbeing & Unlock Your Full Potential with Dr Bessel van der Kolk #483
Today’s returning guest is Dr Bessel van der Kolk. Bessel is a professor of psychiatry at Boston University School of Medicine and President of the Trauma Research Foundation. He's also the author of the iconic book, 'The Body Keeps the Score’, which first came out over 10 years ... Show More
1h 53m
Dec 2024
The Most Powerful Conversation I Have Ever Had: The Secret To Dealing with Any Stressor In Life with Dr Edith Eger #500
Caution: contains themes of an adult nature. This week marks the 500th episode of this podcast! And what a journey it’s been! There have been so many conversations that have had a profound impact upon my life and to celebrate, I thought it would be fitting to share the conversati ... Show More
1h 48m
Aug 2024
[REVISIT] Redesign The Subconscious Mind With Special Guest Peter Crone | #303
Peter Crone delivers one of the most informative podcast episodes yet. He explains complex concepts in simplistic and heartfelt ways. We begin to understand that so many of us are locked in an invisible cage of subconsciously sponsored behaviors. Peter explains why these adaptive ... Show More
1h 5m
Nov 2024
Episode 104: Healing Amidst Chaos: Medical Care in the Lebanese War
In this episode co-hosted with Dr. MohammadAli Jardali, we discuss with Dr. Hasan Ismail, a family medicine physician whose clinic was in the Southern suburbs of Beirut and a medical advisor for Medecins du Monde, the critical topic of medical care during the recent Lebanese war. ... Show More
36m 11s
Feb 2025
471: Coming Together After Trauma – With Dr. Thomas Hubl
Welcome back to Therapy Chat! Today I'm bringing you a replay episode with Dr. Thomas Hübl. We talked about his work over more than 2 decades working with groups of survivors of war, oppression, genocide and other collective traumas about how healing happens. This episode is part ... Show More
47m 1s