logo
episode-header-image
Jun 30
57m 40s

564: Yale’s James Kimmel Jr. on the Scie...

FirmsConsulting.com & StrategyTraining.com
About this episode

James Kimmel, Jr., lawyer, Yale psychiatry lecturer, and author of The Science of Revenge, joins us in the Strategy Skills podcast to explore the neuroscience and behavioral dynamics of revenge. Drawing on law, psychiatry, and over two decades of research, Kimmel offers a sobering view: revenge is not a form of justice, it’s a “pleasure-seeking behavior” that operates like an addiction, fueled by unresolved pain.

 

He opens the conversation with a deeply personal story: as a teenager, after years of bullying, he chased down his aggressors with a loaded revolver. In a pivotal moment, he recalls, “The cost of getting the revenge I wanted was far more than I was willing to pay.” That flash of insight redirected his life and seeded a lifelong investigation into how grievance, retribution, and healing operate in the human mind.

 

Key insights from the discussion include:

  • Revenge Mimics Addiction in the Brain
    Kimmel explains that “your brain on revenge looks like your brain on drugs.” The cycle begins when a grievance activates the brain’s pain network, followed by a surge of dopamine in the reward system. Over time, the craving for retaliation can become compulsive, forming habits akin to substance abuse.
  • Grievance Retention Impairs Judgment
    Unchecked rumination can degrade executive function. “If that prefrontal cortex does not stop you,” Kimmel warns, “and you really crave it… it doesn’t matter how many laws there are.” This impaired self-control is what allows otherwise rational individuals to commit extreme acts of violence.
  • Social Exclusion Can Be a Form of Revenge
    “If you’re ending a relationship not for present harm, but to punish someone for a past wrong, that’s retaliation,” he explains. Even subtle acts like ghosting or ostracism can activate the same pain circuitry in the brain as physical harm.
  • Forgiveness Interrupts the Revenge Cycle
    Neuroscience shows that imagining forgiveness “shuts down the brain’s pain network, silences addiction circuits, and reactivates executive control.” Kimmel calls forgiveness a “human superpower… It doesn’t just cover up the pain like revenge does, it takes the pain away altogether.”
  • Revenge Can Be Prevented, Like a Heart Attack
    Kimmel proposes a new public health framework: treat revenge attacks like cardiac events. “There are warning signs,” he says, grievance fixation, revenge fantasies, acquiring weapons, and they demand the same level of emergency attention.
  • Legal Systems Often Deliver Revenge, Not Justice
    Kimmel reflects on his time as a litigator: “Lawyers get paid to sell revenge under the brand name ‘justice.’” He urges professionals to be aware of how sanctioned systems can enable and normalize compulsive retribution.

 

For leaders in high-stakes environments, the message is clear: understanding the mechanics of grievance and retaliation isn’t just psychological, it’s strategic. Kimmel’s work offers actionable frameworks to recognize revenge-seeking before it becomes destructive, and calls for a deeper integration of neuroscience into how we define justice, manage risk, and lead with compassion.

 

Get The Science of Revenge here: https://www.jameskimmeljr.com/

 

Here are some free gifts for you:

 

Overall Approach Used in Well-Managed Strategy Studies free download: www.firmsconsulting.com/OverallApproach

 

McKinsey & BCG winning resume free download: www.firmsconsulting.com/resumepdf

 

Enjoying this episode? Get access to sample advanced training episodes here: www.firmsconsulting.com/promo

Up next
Today
567: From Refugee to U.S. Marine pilot to NASDAQ-listed biotech CEO | Leadership & Fundraising Lessons (with Quang Pham)
Quang Pham went from being a 10-year-old refugee airlifted out of Vietnam to becoming a Marine pilot, and the CEO of a NASDAQ-listed biotech company. In this conversation, he shares the exact lessons that guided each transition. Key insight: On decision-making: “As a young office ... Show More
39m 47s
Jul 7
566: Silicon Valley’s CEO Whisperer on Why Most Startup Founders Fail (with Rich Hagberg)
Rich Hagberg, often referred to as “Silicon Valley’s CEO Whisperer, psychologist and co-author of Founders Keepers, has advised over 1,000 executives and founders. In this conversation, he outlines why most startup leaders fail, and what the data reveals about those who succeed. ... Show More
56m 43s
Jul 2
565: Founder and CEO of GK Training on Communicating Effectively to Live a Better Life
Michael Chad Hoeppner, CEO of GK Training and adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, brings a deeply practical lens to one of the most undervalued professional skills: spoken communication. With roots in professional acting and over two decades coaching executives, Hoeppn ... Show More
56m 30s
Recommended Episodes
Jan 2025
Speak with Confidence: The 3Fs to Master Public Speaking | Michael Chad Hoeppner
In today’s episode, we discuss the art of confident, compelling communication with Michael Chad Hoeppner, an expert in public speaking and personal development. As the founder and CEO of GK Training, Michael has spent over 15 years coaching leaders, including presidential candida ... Show More
1h 11m
Apr 8
Balancing Speaking With Your Full Time Job + Mastering Cold Outreach (Live Coaching W/ Erick)
“Knowing who you are as an individual on the spiritual side of life helps guide you to who you are created to be.”One of the coolest parts of TSL is watching our coaches work 1:1 with students and helping them find the clarity and confidence they need to take their speaking busin ... Show More
31m 19s
Aug 2024
Why Episodic Sales Training Fails and How to Fix It feat. Dayna Williams
On this episode of The Sales Gravy Podcast, Jeb Blount Jr. sits down with Dayna Williams to discuss cutting-edge strategies for sales success. She gives expert insights on how to develop a winning sales culture, boost your team's performance, and leverage the power of Sales Gravy ... Show More
35m 43s
Jul 2024
152. Fix Your Communication: Why It’s About Connection Over Perfection
“Anything is fixable,” say Frances Frei and Anne Morriss. As cohosts of the Fixable podcast, they’re typically the ones doing the fixing, but on this special episode, they turn to Matt Abrahams for tips on what to do when communication breaks down.Both Frei and her wife Morriss a ... Show More
37m 20s
Apr 15
197. Prep or Perish: Mastering In-the-Moment Communication (1 of 3)
This three-part miniseries is all about keeping your cool when speaking on the spot.Communicating effectively can be challenging enough, even with plenty of time to prepare what we want to say. But for most of our communication, there’s no time to plan, practice, or perfect — we ... Show More
25m 6s
Sep 2024
Bonus: How to Manage Speaking Anxiety the Think Faster, Talk Smarter Way
Gain control over your speaking and excel in your communication.For the first anniversary of his book Think Faster, Talk Smarter, Matt Abrahams shares strategies from the first chapter, focusing on managing speaking anxiety and improving spontaneous communication. Through persona ... Show More
21m 3s
Apr 22
199. Blunder Pressure: Mastering In-the-Moment Communication (3 of 3)
This three-part miniseries is all about keeping your cool when speaking on the spot.Communicating effectively can be challenging enough, even with plenty of time to prepare what we want to say. But for most of our communication, there’s no time to plan, practice, or perfect — we ... Show More
22m 56s
Oct 2024
Stop the Jargon: A Conversation with Content Expert Erik Deckers
In this entertaining episode, Bill Caskey speaks with content marketing veteran Erik Deckers about the plague of corporate jargon in today's business world. Deckers, owner of a content marketing agency and longtime humor columnist, shares his insights on why phrases like "let's d ... Show More
18m 6s
Aug 2023
Motivational Interviewing
Empathetic listening works for intervening with addicts and schizophrenics, why don't you try it in conflicts over product features or customer deadlines? Join us on Troubleshooting Agile to learn how you can incorporate the principles of Motivational Interviewing to improve the ... Show More
13m 19s