logo
episode-header-image
Jun 2025
4 m

Watching the Canary in the Coalmine

MORGAN STANLEY
About this episode

Stock tickers may not immediately price in uncertainty during times of geopolitical volatility. Our Head of Corporate Credit Research Andrew Sheets suggests a different indicator to watch.


Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.


----- Transcript -----


Andrew Sheets: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, Head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley.

Today I'm going to talk about how we're trying to simplify the complicated questions of recent geopolitical events.

It's Friday, June 27th at 2pm in London.

Recent U.S. airstrikes against Iran and the ongoing conflict between Iran and Israel have dominated the headlines. The situation is complicated, uncertain, and ever changing. From the time that this episode is recorded to when you listen to it, conditions may very well have changed again.

Geopolitical events such as this one often have a serious human, social and financial cost, but they do not consistently have an impact on markets. As analysis by my colleague, Michael Wilson and his team have shown, over a number of key geopolitical events over the last 30 years, the impact on the S&P 500 has often been either fleeting or somewhat non-existent. Other factors, in short, dominate markets.

So how to deal with this conundrum? How to take current events seriously while respecting that historical precedent that they often can have more limited market impact? How to make a forecast when quite simply few investors feel like they have an edge in predicting where these events will go next?

In our view, the best way to simplify the market's response is to watch oil prices. Oil remains an important input to the world economy, where changes in price are felt quickly by businesses and consumers.

So when we look back at past geopolitical events that did move markets in a more sustained way, a large increase in oil prices often meaning a rise of more than 75 percent year-over-year was often part of the story. Such a rise in such an important economic input in such a short period of time increases the risk of recession; something that credit markets and many other markets need to care about. So how can we apply this today?

Well, for all the seriousness and severity of the current conflict, oil prices are actually down about 20 percent relative to a year ago. This simply puts current conditions in a very different category than those other periods be they the 1970s or more recently, Russia's invasion of Ukraine that represented genuine oil price shocks. Why is oil down? Well, as my colleague Martin Rats referred to on an earlier episode of this program, oil markets do have very healthy levels of supply, which is helping to cushion these shocks.

With oil prices actually lower than a year ago, we think the credit will focus on other things. To the positive, we see an alignment of a few short-term positive factors, specifically a pretty good balance of supply and demand in the credit market, low realized volatility, and a historically good window in the very near term for performance. Indeed, over the last 15 years, July has represented the best month of the year for returns in both investment grade and high yield credit in both the U.S. and in Europe.

And what could disrupt this? Well, a significant spike in oil prices could be one culprit, but we think a more likely catalyst is a shift of those favorable conditions, which could happen from August and beyond. From here, Morgan Stanley economists’ forecasts see a worsening mix of growth in inflation in the U.S., while seasonal return patterns to flip from good to bad.

In the meantime, however, we will keep watching oil.

Thank you as always for your time. If you find Thoughts the Market useful, let us know by leaving a review wherever you listen, and also tell a friend or colleague about us today. 



Up next
Yesterday
Lessons From a Bond Issued 90 Years Ago
Diving into the history of Morgan Stanley’s first bond deal, our Head of Corporate Credit Research Andrew Sheets explains the value of high-quality corporate bonds.Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcript ----- Andrew Sheets: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm ... Show More
4 m
Oct 8
When Will the Shutdown Affect Markets?
An extended U.S. government shutdown raises the risk for weaker growth potential. Our Global Head of Fixed Income Research and Public Policy Strategy Michael Zezas suggests key checkpoints that investors should keep in mind.Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcript ... Show More
3m 16s
Oct 7
Get Ready for a Steeper Yield Curve
Our Fixed Income Strategist Vishy Tirupattur explains how changes in the yield curve are affecting markets such as insurance, Treasury yields and mortgage rates.Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcript ----- Vishy Tirupattur: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I am ... Show More
3m 9s
Recommended Episodes
May 2025
Tony Greer: Gold is Trading like a Prophecy, What are the Risks?
Tom Bodrovics welcomes back Tony Greer, trader, editor of The Morning Navigator , and co-founder of the MacroDirt podcast, to discuss the current state of global markets. The conversation begins with an overview of the chaotic economic landscape, including regime change dynamics, ... Show More
46m 20s
Mar 2025
Market Volatility Raises Risk-On or Risk-Off Question
Watch Carol and Tim LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF. Bloomberg Intelligence Chief Equity Strategist Gina Martin Adams discusses that while the cues from S&P 500 earnings generally support the outlook for stocks this year, the market's tolerance for risk is being ... Show More
34m 9s
Aug 29
Fed independence in the spotlight as markets await key inflation gauge
Yesterday saw a flurry of economic data releases, accompanied by significant political developments. The US economy demonstrated stronger-than-expected resilience in the second quarter, expanding at a revised annualised rate of 3.3%, while recent labour market figures suggest a s ... Show More
16m 25s
Sep 1
Precious metals shine as markets open September
August saw strong gains in global equities, particularly in the Dow Jones, as well as indices in both China, and Japan. Gold has hit a four-month high nearing USD 3,500 per ounce this morning, driven by concerns over the Federal Reserve’s independence and uncertainty around US ta ... Show More
10m 25s
Aug 18
Ukraine, the Fed, and market breadth
Major equity markets surge to new highs, driven by easing trade tensions, robust US earnings, and expectations of US interest rate cuts even as US inflation remains a concern. This trend is also reflected in US investment-grade credit spreads, which have reached their lowest leve ... Show More
11m 8s
Jun 2023
What If There Was a Recession and No One Noticed?
The disconnect between a roaring stock market and stubborn recession predictions has left many investors scratching their heads. The equity strategists at Bloomberg Intelligence however have an intriguing explanation: Maybe the part of the economic downdraft most likely to impact ... Show More
43m 39s
Sep 29
Equities rebound and gold reaches another all-time high
Markets faced a turbulent week, starting with caution amid hawkish Fed commentary and trade tensions, but ending on a more optimistic note thanks to a solid US inflation report. Global equities rebounded on Friday, though US equities still closed the week in negative territory. I ... Show More
10m 17s
Nov 2023
Interest Rate Declines Will Bring Fated "Soft Landing," Says Earnings Maestro Sam Burns
In January of 2023, a time where extreme pessimism on stocks and the economy reigned, Sam Burns, founder of Mill Street Research, shared his bullish outlook on equities with Jack. Now that his prediction has come true, Sam returns to Forward Guidance to explain why he is much les ... Show More
1h 3m
Aug 2021
US yields jump, gold dives ahead of US inflation!
Asian stock markets kicked off the week on a positive note, although the US indices had nothing more exciting than mixed performance after the announcement of strong jobs data on Friday. The US jobs data gave a small boost to the Dow and the S&P500 which closed Friday’s session 0 ... Show More
10m 42s
Aug 19
Stock Market Noise vs. Real Catalysts: What Actually Moves the Market?
In this Market Mondays clip, hosts Troy Millings, Ian Dunlap, and Rashad Bilal break down what really drives the stock market and what’s just background noise. With stock futures drifting higher ahead of a high-profile meeting, the team explores whether political events and globa ... Show More
4m 51s