logo
episode-header-image
May 2025
1h 8m

‘We Have to Really Rethink the Purpose o...

NEW YORK TIMES OPINION
About this episode

I honestly don’t know how I should be educating my kids. A.I. has raised a lot of questions for schools. Teachers have had to adapt to the most ingenious cheating technology ever devised. But for me, the deeper question is: What should schools be teaching at all? A.I. is going to make the future look very different. How do you prepare kids for a world you can’t predict?

And if we can offload more and more tasks to generative A.I., what’s left for the human mind to do?

Rebecca Winthrop is the director of the Center for Universal Education at the Brookings Institution. She is also an author, with Jenny Anderson, of “The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better.” We discuss how A.I. is transforming what it means to work and be educated, and how our use of A.I. could revive — or undermine — American schools.

Mentioned:

Brookings Global Task Force on AI Education

Winthrop’s World of Education

Book Recommendations:

Democracy and Education by John Dewey

Unwired by Gaia Bernstein

Blueprint for Revolution by Srdja Popovic

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Alexander Gil Fuentes and Switch and Board Podcast Studio.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Up next
Yesterday
What the Shutdown Is Really About
There’s a serious high-stakes policy fight at the heart of this.The Democrats didn’t pick a fight over authoritarianism or tariffs or masked immigration agents in the streets. They picked one over health care. And the issue here is very real. Huge health insurance subsidies passe ... Show More
59m 32s
Oct 3
A Breath of Fresh Air With Brian Eno
Brian Eno’s music opens up worlds I love to step into during trying times. And this conversation with Eno did the same thing.Eno is a trailblazing musician and producer who’s worked on seminal records by U2, David Bowie, the Talking Heads and Coldplay, among others. But Eno isn’t ... Show More
1h 30m
Sep 28
Ta-Nehisi Coates on Bridging Gaps vs. Drawing Lines
The writer Ta-Nehisi Coates was harshly critical of my response to Charlie Kirk’s assassination. In an article in Vanity Fair, he suggested I was whitewashing Kirk’s legacy, comparing it to the whitewashing of the Southern cause after the Civil War.So I wanted to have Coates on t ... Show More
1h 8m
Recommended Episodes
Sep 2024
Education in the Age of AI
The role of AI in the classroom is evolving rapidly. When students and teachers embrace this technology, it has the ability to democratize access to education through programs like IBM SkillsBuild. In this episode of Smart Talks with IBM, Dr. Laurie Santos, host of Pushkin’s The ... Show More
41m 59s
Dec 2024
AI: The Future of Education?
Will AI technologies improve America’s education system as we know it? Or is AI minimizing students’ ability to think and problem-solve independently? In this episode, Dr. Phil welcomes education experts, AI specialists, and students to discuss AI and its impact on our education ... Show More
40m 40s
Sep 18
How is China using AI in the classroom?
Artificial intelligence education now starts at the age of 6 in China. The Ministry of Education has rolled out new guidelines to teach AI at every grade level. For President Xi Jinping, AI is a priority. Will the toddlers of today be the tech titans of the future? In this episod ... Show More
22m 43s
Sep 2021
31: A Promising Vision to Help Educators Implement EdTech in the Classroom with Sam Kary, CEO and Founder, & Thom Gibson, Creative Director - The New EdTech Classroom
On the 31st episode of EdUp EdTech, I got to chat with Sam Kary, CEO, and Founder and Thom Gibson, Creative Director of the New EdTech Classroom. Sam and Thom are both former educators who want to help current educators dive into the wonderful world of edtech armed with the confi ... Show More
39m 1s
Jun 2025
Are We Headed For Another Endless Middle Eastern War?
The Times Opinion columnist Nick Kristof weighs in on the uncertainties following the United States’ surprise bombing of Iran and Tehran’s retaliation. “President Trump thinks that this is going to be successful and worth it, but the enemy gets a vote as well,” Kristof cautions.T ... Show More
13m 24s
Mar 2025
Feed Drop: How AI Will Change Your Job: MIT’s David Autor
Today’s episode is a bonus drop from our friends over at the MIT CSAIL Alliances podcast. We’ll back in two weeks for Season 11 of Me, Myself, and AI. David Autor, the Daniel (1972) and Gail Rubinfeld Professor, Margaret MacVicar Faculty Fellow in MIT’s Department of Economics, s ... Show More
40m 18s
Jul 3
Is ChatGPT hurting our critical thinking skills?
Are AI chatbots dulling our brains? A new MIT study suggests critical thinking skills are at risk from tools like ChatGPT. What does the science say happens to brains that rely on AI? And how can you use AI tools while protecting your ability to think for yourself? In this episod ... Show More
22m 2s
Apr 2025
Co-Intelligence — Using AI to Think Better, Create More, and Live Smarter
The era of artificially intelligent large language models is upon us and isn't going away. Rather, AI tools like ChatGPT are only going to get better and better and affect more and more areas of human life.If you haven't yet felt both amazed and unsettled by these technologies, y ... Show More
57m 46s
Sep 25
Reinventing K-12 Education Using AI with Alpha School Principal Joe Liemandt
What if kids could master their academics in just two hours a day and spend the rest of their time developing real-world skills they’re passionate about? Joe Liemandt, founder of the software company Trilogy, is doing just that. Sarah Guo and Elad Gil are joined by Joe Liemandt, ... Show More
1h 1m