Ep. 108 (Part 1 of 2) | Dr. James Finley, clinical psychologist, trauma specialist, scholar, poet, and author of the powerful memoir, The Healing Path, has an extraordinary breadth and depth of understanding about trauma and the alchemical effects of adding a depth dimension to therapy. Here, he shares about his own experience of trauma and healing, the therapeutic effects of introducing the depth dimension to his clients, the dynamics of anger and forgiveness, the path of longing, and how love gives itself away in the preciousness of each moment, rendering ordinary life sacred. James’ profound understanding of grace is unmistakable, beautiful, riveting—both from personal experience and as a student of Thomas Merton, who introduced him to the wisdom of the mystics at the Trappist monastery, Gethsemani.
Practically everything James says is both a poem and a revelation, so whether you are Christian, Buddhist, or atheist, this conversation offers a therapeutic wisdom and understanding of trauma that goes way beyond the norm, as well as a transmission of infinite love, bottomless mercy. At the end, James laughs at how he is talking: “I can’t believe I’m talking like this…a traumatized kid from Akron, Ohio. It’s not coming from me; it’s flowing through me. All I’m doing is passing on what was passed on to me. So as it catches fire in you, it might pass through you into others.” Recorded August 17, 2023.
“In the momentum of the day’s demands, we feel we are skimming across the surface of the depths of our own lives: we are suffering from depth deprivation.”
(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)
Topics & Time Stamps – Part 1
- Introducing Dr. James Finley, clinical psychologist specializing in trauma, spiritual therapist, author of The Healing Path & Merton’s Palace of Nowhere (00:58)
- How does James bring the worlds of psychotherapy and spirituality together? (03:32)
- James’ experience of God responding during his traumatic childhood and how Thomas Merton introduced him to the mystics at the Trappist monastery (04:22)
- Teaching high school religion, writing Merton’s Palace of Nowhere about how to find our way to our true self, leading silent contemplative retreats, and becoming a clinical psychologist (07:25)
- Where trauma and the presence of God touch each other: into the broken places, the light shines through (08:54)
- There is healing without forgiveness, but there is no healing without anger (11:21)
- Standing in the clear mindedness of anger, you’re not completely free until you forgive (14:29)
- Self-hatred and how we perpetuate the violence until we find a safe place to work it through (18:14)
- Finding refuge in zazen, forgiving abuse at home and in the monastery, and how James found his way back into mystical Catholicism and the depth dimension (20:58)
- Where faith comes in to interior healing, where the alchemy happens: being carried along by mercy equals salvation (25:00)
- Getting past the distortions of religiosity: regrounding therapy in the depth dimension, moving back and forth from the hurting place to infinite love and mercy (26:36)
- What shines forth out of love or out of tragedy: being intimately overtaken by the nearness of the unexplainable (30:11)
- When we have just lost everything, we glimpse the infinity of mercy, and a longing is born to abide in the depths so fleetingly glimpsed: this is the path (31:58)
- Where is all this trauma coming from? We are suffering from depth deprivation (33:13)
- The horizontal dimension of time is intersected by the vertical depth dimension of the infinite (35:19)
- “I know it, I know it, I know that I know it”—I can’t say what it is but I can bear witness to it (36:11)
- Psychotherapy at the depth level is meditation for two (37:27)
- Roger’s summary of points covered: forgiveness, anger, stages of working through trauma, how religion can be used in the transcendence of ego, and the tragic belief that I am the only one who is broken and suffering (37:39)
Resources & References – Part 1
- James Finley, The Healing Path: A Memoir and an Invitation*
- James Finley’s podcast: Turning to the Mystics, hosted on the Center for Action & Contemplation website
- James Finley, Merton’s Palace of Nowhere*
- James Finley, Christian Meditation: Experiencing the Presence of God*
- The Abbey of Our Lady of Gethsemani
- Transpersonal psychology
- Ken Wilber, Integral Psychology: Consciousness, Spirit, Psychology, Therapy*
- Ken Wilber, Integral Spirituality: A Startling New Role for Religion in the Modern and Postmodern World*
- Thomas Merton, The Seven Storey Mountain*, et al.*
- Thomas Merton, The Sign of Jonas*, “I have but one desire, the desire for solitude. To disappear into God’s face.”
- St. Teresa of Ávila, The Collected Works of St. Teresa of Avila, Vol. 1 (featuring The Book of Her Life, Spiritual Testimonies, and the Soliloquies*
- St. John of the Cross, The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross* (includes The Ascent of Mount Carmel, The Dark Night, The Spiritual Canticle, The Living Flame of Love, Letters, and The Minor Works)
- Meister Eckhart, Meister Eckhart, from Whom God Hid Nothing: Sermons, Writings, and Sayings*
- Richard Rohr’s The Living School
- Dan Walsh, metaphysics professor, longtime friend & mentor of Thomas Merton
- The Poems of St. John of the Cross*, translated by Willis Barnstone
* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.
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Student of Thomas Merton and clinical psychologist, Dr. James Finley teaches how connecting to our Divine indwelling can transcend fear and shame and awaken our True Self. A faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation, he is the author of The Healing Path and Merton’s Palace of Nowhere, and the host of CAC’s podcast Turning to the Mystics.
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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell