logo
episode-header-image
Jan 2021
45m 11s

Germany, Italy, Coalitions and Vaccines

DAVID RUNCIMAN AND CATHERINE CARR
About this episode

We look at two countries where things may be changing: Germany, as it starts to imagine life beyond Merkel, and Italy, after the resignation of the prime minister. Would Armin Laschet as Chancellor mean business as usual? Can Conte cobble together a new government? Where are the biggest challenges to the established order coming from? Plus we talk about the new politics of vaccine nationalism. With Helen Thompson, Hans Kundnani and Lucia Rubinelli.


Talking Points:


In some ways Germany is in a state of continuity, rather than flux.

  • Armin Laschet is a continuity candidate. Though it’s not clear that he will be the candidate for chancellor in the September election.
  • Were Laschet to become chancellor, you would probably have a Black-Green coalition. 
  • Has the pandemic made coalition formation less difficult? If so, it would be because the Christian Democrats are in a stronger position than they were.


The German Greens may be different from other Green parties.

  • When the Greens emerged in the late 70s/early 80s, it wasn’t clearly a left-wing party.
  • The Greens have become more centrist on economic issues, and the Christian Democrats have moved left on environmental questions.
  • As environmental politics becomes bigger, is there a constituency that will oppose this? 


Anti-Americanism in Germany is now quite high.

  • Ultimately, the Germany-US relation is more driven by structural factors; Germans don’t believe that they need the United States in the way they did during the Cold War.
  • How committed is Germany to other European states that do feel threatened by Russia? 


Conte resigned yesterday; he has 72 hours to try to come back.

  • Conte resigned because Renzi decided to recall two of his ministers plus an undersecretary.
  • Renzi said he no longer shares the method that the government is using, and he accused Conte of undermining democratic institutions through emergency legislation.
  • Renzi accused Conte of not having a long-term plan for economic development and criticized his statist plans for the recovery fund.
  • He also wants the government to accept the European Stability Mechanism for healthcare.
  • These are a lot of demands for someone polling at close to nothing. 
  • The other two coalition partners don’t want anything to do with Renzi anymore. The question is whether they will stick to it and find a different majority, which seems difficult, or, whether they decide to bring Renzi back into government and get rid of Conte.
  • The only disciplining effect here seems to be a fear of elections—and Salvini.


Conte was initially meant to be a placeholder prime minister.

  • That changed with the second Conte government (from Summer 2019). The new coalition gave him more power. This grew with the pandemic.
  • The conflict over how Italy spends its money is coming back in full force.


Further Learning: 

Up next
May 2023
New Podcast: These Times
UnHerd political editor Tom McTague and Cambridge professor Helen Thompson team up to investigate the history of today’s politics — and what it means for our future. Each week they will explore the great forces, ideas and events that led us to where we are, whether in Britain, th ... Show More
52s
Apr 2023
New Podcast: Where Are You Going?
Talking Politics producer Catherine Carr returns to her role as mic-wielder in 'Where Are You Going?' a unique storytelling podcast, delivered in bite-size episodes. Called 'utterly compelling and unique' by the Financial Times, 'engrossing' by The Times and 'riveting' by The Spe ... Show More
3m 39s
Apr 2023
New Podcast: Past Present Future
Past Present Future is a new weekly podcast with David Runciman, host of Talking Politics, exploring the history of ideas from politics to philosophy, culture to technology. David talks to historians, novelists, scientists and many others about where the most interesting ideas co ... Show More
2m 18s
Recommended Episodes
Dec 2024
After No-Confidence Vote, France Faces Tumult and Uncertainty
The government of French President Emmanuel Macron collapsed Wednesday after losing a no-confidence vote. The outcome brings the country one step closer to a far-right government — the one thing President Macron has sought to avoid at all costs. Bloomberg’s Stephen Carroll and Bi ... Show More
15m 5s
Jul 2024
Finding a French PM: Who is Jean-Luc Melenchon?
The left-wing alliance in France has won the most seats in a dramatic election, dealing a surprise blow to the far-right party of Marine Le Pen.   Le Pen's National Rally was aiming to become the biggest party in parliament for the first time but was stopped by tactical voting an ... Show More
17m 20s
Jul 8
The French reconnection: Macron in Britain
Anglo-French relations have not been so good since before the Brexit vote. Beneath the state-visit pageantry, though, there is much co-operation for President Emmanuel Macron and Prime Minister Keir Starmer to discuss. Gangs have infiltrated many of Latin America’s mining operati ... Show More
21m 10s
Dec 2024
French connection: Trump meets Macron in free fall
The toppling of the French prime minister has caused a massive headache for French President Emmanuel Macron just days before he receives U.S. President-elect Donald Trump in Paris. As one president returns to the world stage, could the other’s days be numbered? France is convuls ... Show More
21m 17s
Apr 4
Beautiful beef: Le Pen, Varoufakis and the horseshoe theory of politics
What do Marine Le Pen, Yanis Varoufakis and Donald Trump have in common? More than you'd think. In this episode of EU Confidential, host Sarah Wheaton breaks down the court decision that could end Le Pen's political career as well as the fallout for France's far right. With POLIT ... Show More
42m 52s
Sep 2024
Grand Barnier: France’s new prime minister
Two months ago, French politics was thrown into crisis after a snap election left no party with a clear majority. Michel Barnier, the new prime minister, has a huge task ahead. Donald Trump’s campaign took time to adjust to the nomination of Kamala Harris. Now he’s on the attack ... Show More
25m 5s
Feb 2025
Entretien avec Dominique de Villepin : La France face au monde
Ancien ministre des Affaires étrangères et Premier ministre, Dominique de Villepin livre sa vision des grands enjeux internationaux et nationaux : Trump, Musk, Gaza, Ukraine, crise politique en France. Pour retrouver cet échange, mes autres interviews et l’actualité en podcast :- ... Show More
1h 42m