Many of us question the core principles of individualism, competition, and transaction our current civilization is founded on. But with an entire culture steeped in these ideals, we don't know where to look for a different way forward. Thankfully, against all odds, there are pockets of cultures who have preserved their knowledge and are able to share both what they know and who their greatest teachers are.
In this episode, Nate is joined by Robin Wall Kimmerer to explore what we can learn from some of Earth's oldest and smallest beings: plants. Robin weaves together her experience as a botanist and a Citizen Potawatomi Nation member to offer what she's learned about living well within nature's limits, including practices such as the Honorable Harvest and the importance of restraint and reciprocity. She also shares the Potawatomi prophecy of the Seventh Fire, in which humanity stands at a fork between a scorched path and a green one, and can only move forward by walking back to recover what was lost along the way. Robin frames this moment as the age of remembering – an invitation to restore the land and our relationship with it.
What can we learn from the long-term persistence of mosses, and how might it change our own definition of success? How might our relationship with the living world shift if our language treated plants and animals as fellow beings and kin rather than "it"? Lastly, if we reframed our ideas of abundance to be more focused on 'enoughness,' how would it change our choices and expectations for generations to come?
(Conversation recorded on September 24th, 2026)
About Robin Wall Kimmerer:
Robin Wall Kimmerer is a plant ecologist, bryologist, writer, and enrolled member of the Citizen Potawatomi Nation. She is a SUNY Distinguished Teaching Professor of Environmental Biology and the founder and director emeritus of the Center for Native Peoples and the Environment at SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry. Her research examines moss ecology, ecological restoration, Traditional Ecological Knowledge, and the restoration of culturally significant plants in partnership with Indigenous communities.
Kimmerer holds a BS in botany from SUNY ESF and an MS and PhD in botany from the University of Wisconsin. Her honors include a 2022 MacArthur Fellowship and the 2023 National Humanities Medal. Across her scientific and literary work, she seeks to braid Indigenous knowledge with Western science and to restore not only ecosystems, but the human relationships with land that determine how those ecosystems are treated.
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