Friends, welcome back to the podcast. This is part two of my conversation with Angel Pérez, the CEO of the National Association for College Admission Counseling.

The theme of our conversation was navigating ambiguity.

In case you missed part one, Angel and I talked about where our own relationships with uncertainty began, what it has looked like for him to lead NACAC through some extraordinarily difficult moments, and some of the lessons he's learned along the way.

In this second part, we get much more practical. Angel and I wanted to explore a simple question: What can we actually do when we don't know what to do? So we try out a few tools together.

We start with what it means to stay with uncertainty for a moment instead of immediately trying to solve it. Then we experiment with something called Q-storming, using AI and the future of college admissions as our test case. From there, Angel helps me pressure-test a project I'm considering using a pre-mortem exercise called "Murphyjitsu."

The basic arc is pretty simple:

How (and why) to stay with the feelings.
How to ask better questions.
How to make better plans.

I hope you enjoy part two of my conversation with Angel Pérez.

Play-by-Play:

02:04 – How does Angel orient to practical tools when navigating ambiguity?
02:40 – What does Angel notice emotionally and physically when sitting with a current leadership challenge?
6:07 – What does Angel do to bring the temperature down in a moment of tension?
08:02 – How do leaders orient to reversible and irreversible decisions?
11:15 – How can Q-Storming help generate better questions before rushing to answers?
15:43 – What is the value of sitting with questions before rushing to answers?
16:42 – How can managing a polarity help when a challenge isn't a problem to solve?
20:45 – What was the leadership challenge Angel was working through during the first exercise?
21:50 – How can Murphy Jitsu help pressure test a plan before putting it into action?
29:27 – What small next steps can Ethan take towards his plan?
33:32 – Why did Angel create the Leaders Are Human podcast?
34:24 – What does Angel want listeners to leave with?

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