E1150: James Dooley and David Quaid return to debate one of the biggest questions in SEO right now: is GEO a separate discipline, or is it just SEO under a new name?
James says he used to agree that GEO was simply SEO with a different label. Then his own team changed his mind. He now runs a separate GEO/AEO department because people who can rank websites #1 in Google can still struggle to get brands cited in ChatGPT, AI Overviews, AI Mode and other LLM-driven results.
David pushes back. His argument is that most of the work required for GEO still comes back to strong SEO: understanding query fan-out, creating the right pages, earning links, building authority, controlling more of the search results and getting third-party sites to corroborate what a brand says about itself.
The debate eventually lands on a more interesting point: James believes only about 1% of decent SEOs can actually do GEO well because there are additional layers beyond traditional website SEO.
In this episode:
- Why James created a separate GEO/AEO department after initially believing GEO was just SEO
- Why ranking #1 in Google does not automatically mean you will be cited by ChatGPT or appear in AI Overviews
- James's argument that GEO is closer to SEO plus online reputation management
- David's case that GEO tactics are still fundamentally SEO tactics applied across more surfaces
- Why third-party corroboration matters for AI visibility
- How Yelp, TripAdvisor, Clutch, DesignRush, G2, Capterra, Reddit and other sites can influence what AI systems see about a brand
- Why reviews, awards, case studies and brand reputation matter when a buyer asks AI to choose between two companies
- How query fan-out changes the keywords and pages SEOs need to think about
- Why James says GEO involves different competitors, tracking, KPIs and reporting
- How parasite SEO, supplementary websites and exact-match domains can be used to control more of the information around a brand
- The difference between tactics designed to move Google rankings and tactics designed specifically to increase AI citations
- The role of press releases, social distribution and third-party mentions in getting faster AI visibility
- James's fastest approach to AI visibility and what he considers more sustainable long-term work
- Why building a defined entity, reviews, awards, knowledge panels and consistent third-party references matters over time
- Why some GEO agencies may simply be weak SEO agencies using a new label
- How businesses should evaluate a GEO agency before spending serious money
- Why enterprise companies are moving larger parts of SEO, branding and traditional marketing budgets into GEO
- Whether SEOs should start selling GEO even if they believe the underlying work is still SEO
James and David disagree on where SEO ends and GEO begins, but they agree on one important point: a GEO provider who cannot understand and execute SEO is unlikely to be very good at GEO.
If you work in SEO, run an agency, manage a brand, or are trying to understand how ChatGPT and AI search are changing search visibility, this episode lays out both sides of the argument with specific examples and tactics.
⭐️ James Dooley's website - https://jamesdooley.com/
⭐️ James Dooley on 𝕏 - https://x.com/james_dooley
⭐️ James Dooley on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameszdooley/
⭐️ James Dooley on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jameszdooley/
⭐️ James Dooley on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/james.dooley1/
⭐️ James Dooley on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@JamesDooley
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DavidQuaid
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 GEO vs SEO Debate Setup
00:45 Why AI Visibility Differs
02:25 GEO as SEO Plus ORM
05:17 Market Confusion and SEO Is Dead Claims
07:15 Budgets Branding and Off Page Proof
11:55 Can You Do GEO Without SEO
13:27 Yelp Reviews and Local Listings
22:05 Tools KPIs and Claim Frame Prove
26:15 SERP APIs and Query Fan Out Shifts
28:20 Creativity Outranking Listicles
32:54 Black Hat SEO vs LLM Poisoning
39:04 GEO Hype Emotional Marketing
43:17 Big Budgets and Boardroom Criteria
47:37 AEO Off Page Signals
49:12 Vetting GEO Agencies
51:18 Independent Advisor Panels
53:19 Budgets Shift To GEO
55:28 Fast AI Visibility Plays
59:36 Pop Under Traffic Boosts
01:00:50 Sustainable Entity Building
01:01:50 Query Fanout Hacks
01:07:14 Experimentation Mindset
01:10:36 King Of SEO Case Study
01:14:18 Temporal Semantics Explained
01:21:46 Common Crawl Training Test
01:30:58 Final AI Visibility Takeaways
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
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