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In this episode, we sit down with Chris Voss — bestselling author of Never Split the Difference (5M+ readers), who spent two and a half decades in the FBI as their lead international hostage negotiator and is now CEO of The Black Swan Group. Chris opens up about growing up in a small Iowa town, running a jackhammer at age 11 on his father's orders, and the movie at 16 that made him want to become a cop. He breaks down the three negotiator types — Analyst, Accommodator, and Assertive — using Elon Musk, Richard Branson, and Jeff Bezos as real examples. He also gets into the labeling technique that triggers oxytocin and serotonin instantly, why paying a ransom immediately is the worst move you can make, how Haiti kidnappings always settled on Fridays, and why the same skills that saved lives in the Philippines and Colombia work in boardrooms, sales calls, and relationships.
💬 What We Cover:
- The "no job beneath you" work ethic his father drilled into him from age 11
- The two Voss family mottos: "How hard could it be?" and "anything worth doing is done in the dark"
- The movie at 16 that sparked his law enforcement career
- Why he passed on the military — and what he says he missed
- Getting ranked #1 on both the Kansas City SWAT list and FBI list simultaneously
- The mentor whose advice got him into the FBI in 10 months
- Advice shoppers vs. people who actually act on coaching
- Trying out for the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team — and two knee surgeries that ended it
- The three negotiator types: Analyst (Musk), Accommodator (Branson), Assertive (Bezos)
- Never Split the Difference sold in 40 countries — and why it resonates globally
- Volunteering on a suicide hotline before his first hostage negotiation
- Why paying a ransom immediately signals a "down payment," not a resolution
- 150+ negotiations across a dozen countries — including 100+ kidnappings in Haiti in one year
- The Jeffrey Schilling case — and the terrorist sociopath who called back to pay his respects
- Why Haiti kidnappings always settled on Fridays
- Why "what" and "how" questions exhaust the other side into resolution
- Why "win-win" is often weaponized against you
- Shawn Achor's Harvard research: 31% smarter and salespeople 37% more effective in a positive mindset
- His legacy: helping people see the world in color
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📲 Chris Voss's Website: https://www.blackswanltd.com
Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro & Welcome
00:42 – Growing Up in Iowa: No Job Beneath You
02:41 – The Jackhammer Story at Age 11
04:24 – The Two Voss Family Mottos
05:07 – The Movie at 16 That Made Him Want to Be a Cop
10:43 – Ranked #1 on Both the SWAT and FBI Lists
11:55 – The Mentor Whose Advice Changed His FBI Interview
17:02 – Advice Shoppers vs. People Who Actually Act on Coaching
23:05 – Trying Out for the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team
24:20 – Two Knee Surgeries & Accepting Physical Limits
26:14 – The Three Negotiator Types: Analyst, Accommodator, Assertive
30:58 – How Amazon Reportedly Distributes the Book to Their Salespeople
31:47 – Why Never Split the Difference Sold in 40 Countries
34:43 – Told to Volunteer on a Suicide Hotline First
41:29 – The Labeling Technique & Reflective Listening
46:17 – 150+ Hostage Negotiations Across a Dozen Countries
47:01 – The Jeffrey Schilling Case in the Philippines
49:10 – How a Real Kidnapping Call Unfolds
51:31 – Why You Never Pay a Ransom Immediately
52:32 – Coyote Kidnappings: When They Don't Even Have the Victim
53:48 – "How Do I Know She's Alive?" — Flipping Control Instantly
57:45 – "What" and "How" Questions That Exhaust the Other Side
1:03:37 – Colombia's FARC & Long-Term Kidnappings
1:04:22 – Why Haiti Kidnappings Always Settled on Fridays
1:07:16 – Coaching Terrified Families to Stay Calm
1:10:51 – Tone Sets the Tone
1:11:45 – Applying Negotiation Skills to Relationships
1:18:04 – Case Study: A Female CEO Mediates Two Executives
1:26:35 – The Chase Manhattan Bank Robber Case
1:32:17 – What "Never Split the Difference" Actually Means
1:32:52 – Why "Win-Win" Is Often Weaponized Against You
1:36:05 – Why "Why" Questions Get Honest, Unfiltered Answers
1:50:13 – The Hardest Habit to Break: Hijacking Conversations
1:50:58 – The Three Magic Mindsets: Curiosity, Playfulness & Gratitude
1:57:53 – First Things First: Rapid-Fire Round
2:01:23 – Advice to His Younger Self: Just Be a Little Nicer
2:01:59 – Legacy: Helping People See the World in Color
2:02:58 – Closing