logo
episode-header-image
Oct 2025
42m 55s

Why the Price of Money Surged in the Las...

bloomberg
About this episode

What changed between 2019 and 2025? Why are interest rates so much higher? Why does it seem virtually unfathomable that the Fed will return to ZIRP anytime soon? Why do investors expect this rate cut cycle to be so shallow? The answer, theoretically, is that the neutral rate of interest has gone up. But what is the neutral rate of interest, and why has it moved? On this episode, we speak with Jamie Rush of Bloomberg Economics and Tom Orlik, the Chief Economist at Bloomberg Economics. They, along with Bloomberg's Stephanie Flanders, are the editors of a new book titled The Price of Money: A Guide to the Past, Present, and Future of the Natural Rate of Interest, in which they attempt to directly identify what the neutral rate of interest actually is. We discuss the big changes over the last several years, including deglobalization, demographics, and datacenters, that are pushing this number higher.

Listen to our sister show Trumponomics: Trump Isn’t the Only Reason the Price of Money Is Rising
Read more:
Trump’s Contradiction: Demanding Steep Rate Cuts for a ‘Booming’ Economy
Fed Set to Drive Global Rate Cuts as Europe Shifts to Pause

Only http://Bloomberg.com subscribers can get the Odd Lots newsletter in their inbox each week, plus unlimited access to the site and app. Subscribe at  bloomberg.com/subscriptions/oddlots

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Up next
Yesterday
What Everyone Gets Wrong About the Economic Problems in Europe
In so many conversations, there's a widespread view that Europe is falling behind. Or it's in trouble. It has been two years since the publication of the Draghi report and the problems the report identified about European competitiveness are far from solved: Demographic challenge ... Show More
52m 39s
Oct 5
Why Treasuries Are 'Risky' Again
We all know that US Treasury yields have been surging, alongside bond yields all around the world. So what explains the selloff and does this mean that bonds are becoming fundamentally riskier? What happens if investors can no longer hedge stocks with government debt? And how do ... Show More
50m 39s
Oct 2
How Airlines Actually Hedge Higher Fuel Prices
Fuel is a huge expense for airlines, and even on a good day, jet fuel prices are pretty volatile. Throw in two major wars now effecting energy infrastructure, and fuel prices across the board are higher and higher. Airlines have long tried to manage this expense through fuel hedg ... Show More
53m 31s
Recommended Episodes
Feb 2021
Will Rising Interest Rates Change The Game?
DB-Feb26,2021: Real Vision senior editor Ash Bennington hosts managing editor Ed Harrison and editor Jack Farley for a deep-dive on how rapidly rising interest rates are transforming the financial landscape before our very eyes. Ed and Ash analyze the latest economic data on risi ... Show More
42 m
May 2023
Get used to higher interest rates
The Federal Reserve has once again raised interest rates, which means borrowing money for your mortgage or your business is once again more expensive. New York Times economics reporter Talmon Joseph Smith explains why this might keep happening. This episode was produced by Miles ... Show More
26m 6s
May 2023
Inflation rose again. Will that sway the Fed on rates?
The Fed’s interest rate fight just got more complicated — the central bank’s preferred gauge of inflation indicated that prices rose 0.4% last month, a speed-up from the previous month that saw a 0.1% increase. We talk to Christopher Low, chief economist at FHN Financial, about w ... Show More
8m 44s
May 2023
Inflation rose again. Will that sway the Fed on rates?
The Fed’s interest rate fight just got more complicated — the central bank’s preferred gauge of inflation indicated that prices rose 0.4% last month, a speed-up from the previous month that saw a 0.1% increase. We talk to Christopher Low, chief economist at FHN Financial, about w ... Show More
8m 44s
May 2021
Inflation Shocker
A shockingly high reading in the consumer price index landed with a bang in markets this week. Zachary Griffiths, a macro strategist with Wells Fargo, joined the “What Goes Up” podcast to discuss what inflation pressures he’s got his eye on and why he doesn’t think the latest num ... Show More
40m 34s