12,000 years ago, human history changed forever when the egalitarian groups of hunter-gathering humans began to settle down and organize themselves into hierarchies. The few dominated the many, seizing control through violence. What emerged were “Goliaths”: large societies built on a collection of hierarchies that are also terrifyingly fragile, collapsing time after time across the world. Today, we live in a single, global Goliath—one that is precariously interdependent—under threat from nuclear war, climate change, and the existential risks of AI. The next collapse may be our last.

Today’s guest is Luke Kemp, author of Goliath’s Curse. He conducts a historical autopsy on our species, from the earliest cities to the collapse of modern states like Somalia. Drawing on historical databases and the latest discoveries in archaeology and anthropology, he uncovers groundbreaking revelations:

More democratic societies tend to be more resilient.
A modern collapse is likely to be global, long-lasting, and more dire than ever before
Collapse may be invisible until after it has occurred. It’s possible we’re living through one now.
Collapse has often had a more positive outcome for the general population than for the 1%.
All Goliaths contain the seeds of their own demise.

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