logo
episode-header-image
Sep 15
38m 10s

How the “Dangerous Gimmick” of the Two-S...

WNYC STUDIOS AND THE NEW YORKER
About this episode

For decades, the United States backed efforts to achieve a two-state solution—in which Israel would exist side by side with the Palestinian state, with both states recognizing each other’s claim to contested territory. The veteran negotiators Hussein Agha, representing Palestine, and Robert Malley, an American diplomat, played instrumental roles in that long effort, including the critical Camp David summit of 2000. But, in their new book, “Tomorrow Is Yesterday,” they conclude that they were part of a charade. There was never any way that a two-state solution could satisfy either of the parties, Agha and Malley tell David Remnick in an interview. “A waste of time is almost a charitable way to look at it,” Malley notes bitterly. “At the end of that thirty-year-or-so period, the Israelis and Palestinians are in a worse situation than before the U.S. got so heavily invested.” The process, appealing to Western leaders and liberals in Israel, was geared to “find the kind of solutions that have a technical outcome, that are measurable, and that can be portrayed by lines on maps,” Agha says. “It completely discarded the issue of emotions and history. You can’t be emotional. You have to be rational. You have to be cool. But rational and cool has nothing to do with the conflict.” 

What Killed the Two-State Solution?,” an excerpt from Agha and Malley’s new book, was published in The New Yorker. 

New episodes of The New Yorker Radio Hour drop every Tuesday and Friday. Follow the show wherever you get your podcasts

Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices
Up next
Oct 8
After James Comey, Who’s Next on Trump’s Revenge Tour?
The New Yorker contributing writer Ruth Marcus joins Tyler Foggatt to discuss Donald Trump’s “revenge tour”—his effort to use the levers of government to settle personal and political scores. They talk about the indictment of the former F.B.I. director James Comey, why legal expe ... Show More
43m 27s
Oct 6
A Conservative Professor on How to Fix Campus Culture
Robert P. George is not a passive observer of the proverbial culture wars; he’s been a very active participant. As a Catholic legal scholar and philosopher at Princeton University, he was an influential opponent of Roe v. Wade and same-sex marriage, receiving a Presidential medal ... Show More
26m 2s
Oct 4
How Russell Vought Broke the U.S. Government
The Washington Roundtable discusses how this week’s government shutdown can be best understood by looking at the background and influence of Russell Vought, the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget. Vought is a Christian nationalist who served in the first ... Show More
36m 16s
Recommended Episodes
Jun 2025
Supreme Court Hands Trump Even More Power
In a major ruling on Friday, the Supreme Court limited the ability of judges to block President Trump’s policies nationwide, including his order to end birthright citizenship.Mr. Trump immediately cheered the ruling, while critics have decried it as a fundamental threat to the ru ... Show More
25m 52s
Mar 2025
Trump’s Showdown With the Courts
President Trump’s showdown with the courts reached a new milestone on Tuesday, when he called for a federal judge to be impeached and the chief justice of the Supreme Court publicly scolded the president in response.Luke Broadwater, who covers the White House for The Times, discu ... Show More
30m 11s
Jul 2024
The Supreme Court Is Not Done Remaking America
When the Supreme Court wrapped up its term last week, much of the focus was one the ruling that gave former President Donald J. Trump sweeping immunity from criminal prosecution. But another set of rulings that generated less attention could have just as big an impact on American ... Show More
25m 21s
Aug 27
Trump’s Move to Fire Fed Governor Sets Up New Legal Test of Presidential Power
P.M. Edition for Aug. 27. Federal Reserve governor Lisa Cook has vowed to fight President Trump’s effort to remove her from her post—a legal challenge likely to end up in front of the Supreme Court. WSJ Supreme Court correspondent Jess Bravin talks about the legal precedents for ... Show More
14m 41s
Sep 15
The Rise of the Supreme Court’s So-Called Shadow Docket
The Supreme Court has cleared the way for President Trump to remake American government, siding with the president again and again. But many of those rulings have lacked something fundamental: an explanation for why the most important judges in the country came to their decision. ... Show More
26m 17s
Jul 1
How is the US Supreme Court giving Trump more power?
The US Supreme Court has reshaped birthright citizenship – and the judiciary itself. US President Donald Trump is claiming victory after last week’s Supreme Court ruling that federal judges cannot issue nationwide injunctions. Has the ruling reshaped the power of the presidency? ... Show More
23m 15s
Jun 2025
The Supreme Court’s Season Finale, Explained
SCOTUS wrapped up a busy session, giving states room to restrict transgender medical care for minors, allowing the federal government to strip legal status for Venezuelan migrants and, in one of its final acts on Friday, clipping the power of federal judges to block President Tru ... Show More
18m 29s
Jun 2025
Supreme Court Makes Trump More Powerful, Changes Presidency
The Supreme Court delivered a major win to President Donald Trump on Friday in his ongoing war with the federal judiciary, limiting the power of courts to step in and block policies on a nationwide basis in the short term while judges review their legality. Learn more about your ... Show More
47m 25s
Sep 8
President Trump Asks Supreme Court To Uphold Tariffs
President Trump has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to uphold his authority to issue tariffs under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. We discuss the implications of a possible ruling — if the court strikes down his tariffs and if it says Trump’s tariffs are legal.This ... Show More
15m 42s
Jul 2024
Swamp Notes: Conservatives have big plans for the judicial branch
As president, Donald Trump appointed three conservative justices to the Supreme Court and hundreds of conservative judges to benches across the judicial branch. These justices and judges have handed down several controversial decisions that have reshaped important aspects of Amer ... Show More
15m 29s