logo
episode-header-image
Aug 6
48m 23s

Optimizing Funnels, Pricing, and Retenti...

David Barnard, Jacob Eiting
About this episode

On the podcast I talk with Lucy and Nicole about how customer-driven iteration led Zumba from VHS tapes in 2001 to launching an app in 2024, their app2web experiments that boosted LTV by 17%, and how they are able to charge for content when countless Zumba classes are available for free on YouTube.


Top Takeaways:

🗣️ Listening has driven 24 years of product evolution

Every Zumba breakthrough — from instructor certifications born out of VHS buyer calls, to an app tailored for shy beginners — came directly from customer insights. The roadmap is data-led, not intuition-driven, ensuring they're always building what users genuinely want.

🎯 Subscribers pay for structured programs, not endless content

Zumba realized users were overwhelmed by free YouTube videos. By creating curated, goal-oriented programs, subscribers now watch twice as many videos and retention doubled. People will pay for guidance and curation — not just more content.

🚀 Your growth ceiling depends on beginner retention

With 70% of new users identifying as beginners, Zumba redesigned onboarding and UX to quickly move them toward completing three classes. Annual-plan signups reached 60%, and churn dropped dramatically. Early milestones for beginners unlock long-term growth.

🌐 Web checkout can lower conversion yet raise revenue

Zumba shifted paywall taps to a simplified web checkout with Apple Pay and Google Pay. Immediate conversions dropped 25%, but higher annual plans, better retention, and no store fees drove a 17% lift in LTV. Optimize for long-term value, not just instant conversions.

🔁 Speed of iteration beats legacy processes every time

Zumba’s lean, agile team tests and pivots relentlessly — from paywall pricing to removing unsuccessful features. Daily checks in Mixpanel dictate what scales or what’s cut. Moving quickly and iterating beats established practices and keeps growth steady.



About Nicole Page & Lucy Levy:

📱 Nicole Page is Senior Product Manager at Zumba, leading app development with a focus on user research and fast iteration. From onboarding experiments to web-first paywalls, she brings a data-driven mindset to every launch.

💡 “Every launch is a hypothesis we’re testing, and we’re never afraid to pivot if the numbers tell us to.”

👋 Nicole

🚀 Lucy Levy is Chief Consumer Officer at Zumba, guiding the brand from VHS to app, boosting LTV 17% along the way with innovative strategies and beginner-focused design.


🌍 Together, they’re modernizing Zumba’s global community.

👋 Lucy

Follow us on X: 


Episode Highlights:

[00:02:44] From VHS to app store: How three Albertos turned dance fitness into a global brand.

[00:06:26] Community is the product: Why Zumba built its business around instructors, not just workouts.

[00:11:01] Research at scale: How hundreds of interviews revealed why “The Shy Beginner” is their most important user.

[00:14:30] Better churn than never: Why people leaving the app for live classes still counts as a win.

[00:15:54] Can’t compete with free? Yes you can: The Zumba app’s curated programs outperform YouTube.

[00:17:25] Double the value: Adding structured programs led to twice the content engagement and better retention.

[00:20:04] Cracking community: Why their first chat-based social feature failed and what they’re planning next.

[00:22:56] Test everything: Zumba’s app team operates with a growth mindset inside a 24-year-old company.

[00:25:22] Data before breakfast: Why daily Mixpanel check-ins drive fast iteration and culture change.

[00:26:09] App-to-web win: How a 25% drop in conversion still led to a 17% lift in LTV.

[00:30:19] Checkout optimization: Using Stripe, Apple Pay, and Google Pay to simplify the paywall experience.

[00:35:07] Push, don’t annoy: The team’s smart notification timing strategy based on user habits.

[00:38:44] Beginner, please: 75% of users identify as new to fitness, so the app is built just for them.

[00:39:01] Add friction, raise conversion: How a longer onboarding flow improved paywall success.

[00:40:51] One class to hook them: Why Zumba offers just one free class before locking the app.

[00:43:25] Three’s the magic number: Users who complete three classes are much more likely to stick.

[00:44:56] No trial, no problem: Ditching the monthly trial increased upfront revenue and annual plan adoption.

Up next
Aug 20
Signal Engineering: Strategic Data Filtering for Better Ad Performance — Thomas Petit, Independent Consultant
On the podcast I talk with Thomas about using signal engineering to optimize ad spend, how AI is changing creative testing, and why most people should avoid app2web… for now.Top Takeaways:🧠 The biggest AI opportunity in ads is smarter analysis, not faster productionAI is now goo ... Show More
1h 33m
Jul 23
The Past, Present, and Future of Building on Apple — John Gruber, Daring Fireball
On the podcast I talk with John about the fascinating 40-year history of Apple’s developer relations, how almost going bankrupt in the 1990s shaped today’s control-focused approach, and why we might need an ‘App Store 3.0’ reset.Top Takeaways:🕹️ The 1980s: Apple’s developer DNA ... Show More
2h 17m
Jul 9
Turning a Side Project into a Six-Figure Subscription Business – Eric Duffett, Shot Pattern
On the podcast we talk with Eric about his journey from a failed first app to success with his second, the advantage of building for problems people are already talking about, and why he turned down a lucrative acquisition offer to keep building.Top Takeaways:🔍 Demand-first disc ... Show More
45m 26s
Recommended Episodes
Jul 11
How to Go Viral – The Science Behind Content that Spreads
In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles is joined by Brendan Kane, viral strategist and author of One Million Followers, for a deep dive into the art and science of making content go viral. Going viral often feels like marketing mythology,something bosses ... Show More
26m 1s
Jan 2025
He built a startup using AI that prints money (full tutorial)
In this episode we dive deep into modern marketing strategies with Cody Schneider, focusing on the concept of "digital gravity" versus traditional marketing funnels. The discussion covers comprehensive tactics for both B2B and B2C companies, including detailed strategies for cont ... Show More
56m 10s
Feb 2024
AI in Marketing and Going Viral | Hook Point's Brendan Kane | Artificial Intelligence Podcast
In this episode of the AI For All Podcast, Brendan Kane, Founder of Hook Point, joins Ryan Chacon and Neil Sahota to discuss AI in marketing and creating viral content. Kane talks about the significance of qualitative analysis to optimize content, mastering storytelling, and the ... Show More
34m 39s
Apr 2021
Episode 210: Running a UX Patterns Library with Ramy Khuffash
What does it take to successfully run a content library for designers? What are the challenges? Our guest today is Ramy Khuffash, indie hacker and founder of Page Flows and Screenjar. You’ll learn about Ramy’s founder journey, how he works on multiple products simultaneously, how ... Show More
34m 37s
Mar 2025
How to win in the AI era: Ship a feature every week, embrace technical debt, ruthlessly cut scope, and create magic your competitors can't copy | Gaurav Misra (CEO and co-founder of Captions)
Gaurav Misra is the co-founder and CEO of Captions, an AI-powered video creation company and one of the most successful consumer AI products in the world today. Previously he was a product leader at Snap, where he created the design engineering function and spent years helping de ... Show More
1h 25m
Jan 2025
How to grow an internet audience in 2025
Join me as I chat with  Dr. Tyler Lemco, known for co-founding Epic Mealtime (600M+ views), where we discuss strategies for building an internet audience from scratch. The conversation covers practical advice for content creators, including bio optimization, platform selection, a ... Show More
48m 33s
Oct 2023
457 High Impact Content Marketing by Purna Virji
High-Impact Content Marketing: Strategies to Make Your Content Intentional, Engaging and Effective by Purna Virji About the Book: Create meaningful engagement, drive conversion rates and boost customer retention with this crucial resource to unlocking the true potential of your c ... Show More
1h 22m
Jul 6
Solo founder, $80M exit, 6 months: The Base44 bootstrapped startup success story | Maor Shlomo
Maor Shlomo is the founder of Base44, an AI-powered app builder that he bootstrapped to an over $80 million acquisition by Wix in just six months. As a solo founder (with severe ADHD), he hit $1 million ARR just three weeks after launch and grew the product to more than 400,000 u ... Show More
1h 31m
Jun 25
Building Cluely: The Viral AI Startup that raised $15M in 10 Weeks
What if virality wasn’t a tactic — but the entire product?In this episode, a16z General Partners Erik Torenberg and Bryan Kim sit down with Roy Lee, cofounder and CEO of Cluely, one of the most talked-about consumer AI startups of 2025. Cluely didn’t raise a mega round or drop a ... Show More
38m 24s