logo
episode-header-image
May 2023
57m 43s

Clarence X

Wnyc Studios
About this episode

To many Americans, Clarence Thomas makes no sense. For more than 30 years on the Court, he seems to have been on a mission — to take away rights that benefit Black people. As a young man, though, Thomas listened to records of Malcolm X speeches on a loop and strongly identified with the tenets of Black Nationalism. This week on More Perfect, we dig into his writings and lectures, talk to scholars and confidants, and explore his past, all in an attempt to answer: what does Clarence Thomas think Clarence Thomas is doing?

Voices in the episode include:

Juan Williams — senior political analyst at Fox News

Corey Robin — professor of political science at Brooklyn College and the CUNY Graduate Center

Angela Onwuachi-Willig — Dean of Boston University School of Law

Stephen F. Smith — Notre Dame Law School professor

Learn more:

• 1993: Graham v. Collins

• 1994: Holder v. Hall

• 1999: Chicago v. Morales

• 2003: Grutter v. Bollinger

• 2022: Students for Fair Admissions v. President and Fellows of Harvard College

• 2022: Students for Fair Admissions v. University of North Carolina

“The Enigma of Clarence Thomas” by Corey Robin

“Black Conservatives, Center Stage” by Juan Williams

“Just Another Brother on the SCT?: What Justice Clarence Thomas Teaches Us About the Influence of Racial Identity” by Angela Onwuachi-Willig

“Clarence X?: The Black Nationalist Behind Justice Thomas's Constitutionalism” by Stephen F. Smith

“My Grandfather’s Son” by Justice Clarence Thomas

Supreme Court archival audio comes from Oyez®, a free law project by Justia and the Legal Information Institute of Cornell Law School.

Support for More Perfect is provided in part by The Smart Family Fund.

Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @moreperfectpodcast, and Twitter @moreperfect.

Up next
May 2025
No More Souters - Revisited
Justice David Souter has died. Souter was one of the most private, low-profile justices ever to have served on the Supreme Court. He rarely gave interviews or speeches. Yet his tenure was anything but low profile. Deemed a “home run” nominee by Republicans, Souter defied partisan ... Show More
49m 7s
Aug 2023
Andy Warhol and the Art of Judging Art
The law protects creators' original work against copycats, but it also leaves the door open for some kinds of copying. When a photographer sues the Andy Warhol Foundation for using her work without permission, the justices struggle not to play art critics as they decide the case. ... Show More
41m 12s
Jul 2023
The Original Anti-Vaxxer
In 1902, a Swedish-American pastor named Henning Jacobson refused to get the smallpox vaccine. This launched a chain of events leading to two landmark Supreme Court cases, in which the Court considered the balancing act between individual liberty over our bodies and the collectiv ... Show More
40m 57s
Recommended Episodes
Aug 14
We the People: Succession of Power
The 25th amendment. A few years before JFK was shot, an idealistic young lawyer set out on a mission to convince people something essential was missing from the Constitution: clear instructions for what should happen if a U.S. president was no longer able to serve. On this episod ... Show More
47m 31s
Sep 2024
Why is the voting age 18?
For most of our nation's history, the voting age was 21. So how'd we get it down to 18? In one sense, it was the fastest ratified amendment in history. In another, it took three decades. Our guide to the hard-won fight for youth enfranchisement is Jennifer Frost, author of "Let U ... Show More
36m 16s
Oct 2024
The World's First Constitution
The world's oldest oldest continuously surviving constitution, was adopted in the tiny country of San Marino on 8th October, 1600. This was a good 187 years before the United States adopted its own constitution and, during his presidency, Abraham Lincoln frequently held San Marin ... Show More
11m 48s
Jun 2025
Bonus Episode: THE U.S. CONSTITUTION. Let's read it together.
Have you ever read every word of The U.S. Constitution? You don't have to, because I read it with my mouth into your brain in this weird but vital episode on civil liberties. And of course, there are little sidenotes to make sure we both understand it. There has never been a bett ... Show More
1h 25m
Aug 18
The 19th Amendment Gives Women the Right to Vote
August 18, 1920. The 19th Amendment is ratified by the United States Congress, granting women the right to vote. This episode originally aired in 2022.Support the show! Join Into History for ad-free listening and more.History Daily is a co-production of Airship and Noiser.Go to H ... Show More
20m 23s
Jul 2017
Episode 21, Thomas Hobbes's Political Philosophy (Part I)
Everything you could need is on www.thepanpsycast.com! Please tweet us your thoughts at www.twitter.com/thepanpsycast. Few political thinkers can be considered as influential as Thomas Hobbes. Published in 1651, Hobbes’s most famous work, the Leviathan (or The Matter, Forme and P ... Show More
37m 13s
Jun 2017
Episode 20, Plato's Political Philosophy (Part II)
Everything you could need is on www.thepanpsycast.com! Please tweet us your thoughts at www.twitter.com/thepanpsycast. This episode benchmarks the beginning of our mini-series on political philosophy. Plato provides a strong critique of democracy through his formulation of a utop ... Show More
50m 18s
Jun 2017
Episode 20, Plato's Political Philosophy (Part I)
Everything you could need is on www.thepanpsycast.com! Please tweet us your thoughts at www.twitter.com/thepanpsycast. This episode benchmarks the beginning of our mini-series on political philosophy. Plato provides a strong critique of democracy through his formulation of a utop ... Show More
57m 1s
Jun 2020
Post No Evil Redux
Today we revisit our story on Facebook and its rulebook, looking at what’s changed in the past two years and exploring how these rules will impact the 2020 Presidential Election.  Back in 2008 Facebook began writing a document. It was a constitution of sorts, laying out what coul ... Show More
7 m
Nov 2021
Part Four: Future Tense Politics
How can we do politics with a Long Time lens? So often it feels like our leaders are firmly stuck in the short-term, motivated by getting re-elected every four or five years and the sway of vested interests. In this episode we meet the people changing this both from within govern ... Show More
1h 6m