Zuck on:
* Llama 4, benchmark gaming
* Intelligence explosion, business models for AGI
* DeepSeek/China, export controls, & Trump
* Orion glasses, AI relationships, and preventing reward-hacking from our tech.
Watch on Youtube; listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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SPONSORS
* Scale is building the infrastructure for safer, smarter AI. Scale’s Data Foundry gives major AI labs access to high-quality data to fuel post-training, while their public leaderboards help assess model capabilities. They also just released Scale Evaluation, a new tool that diagnoses model limitations. If you’re an AI researcher or engineer, learn how Scale can help you push the frontier at scale.com/dwarkesh.
* WorkOS Radar protects your product against bots, fraud, and abuse. Radar uses 80+ signals to identify and block common threats and harmful behavior. Join companies like Cursor, Perplexity, and OpenAI that have eliminated costly free-tier abuse by visiting workos.com/radar.
* Lambda is THE cloud for AI developers, with over 50,000 NVIDIA GPUs ready to go for startups, enterprises, and hyperscalers. By focusing exclusively on AI, Lambda provides cost-effective compute supported by true experts, including a serverless API serving top open-source models like Llama 4 or DeepSeek V3-0324 without rate limits, and available for a free trial at lambda.ai/dwarkesh.
To sponsor a future episode, visit dwarkesh.com/p/advertise.
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TIMESTAMPS
(00:00:00) – How Llama 4 compares to other models
(00:11:34) – Intelligence explosion
(00:26:36) – AI friends, therapists & girlfriends
(00:35:10) – DeepSeek & China
(00:39:49) – Open source AI
(00:54:15) – Monetizing AGI
(00:58:32) – The role of a CEO
(01:02:04) – Is big tech aligning with Trump?
(01:07:10) – 100x productivity