tense showdown on Thursday, senators of both parties confronted Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. over his vaccine policies, his firing of the director of the C.D.C., and the growing list of federal health officials who have resigned in protest of his leadership.

Sheryl Gay Stolberg, who covers health policy for The Times, explains what it was like in the room and describes what seems like a turning point in the relationship between Congress and Mr. Kennedy.

Guest: Sheryl Gay Stolberg, a correspondent based in Washington covering health policy for The New York Times.

Background reading:

A defiant Kennedy defended vaccine changes and the shake-up at the C.D.C.
Some states said they would go their own way on vaccine policy.
Will the C.D.C. survive?

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Photo: Tierney L. Cross/The New York Times

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

RFK Jr's cuts to US health