logo
episode-header-image
Feb 2025
1h 1m

The End of Reading

The Ringer
About this episode

Something alarming is happening with reading in America. Leisure reading by some accounts has declined by about 50 percent this century. Literacy scores are declining for fourth and eighth graders at alarming rates. And even college students today are complaining to teachers that they can’t read entire books. The book itself, that ancient piece of technology for storing ideas passed down across decades, is fading in curricula across the country, replaced by film and TV and YouTube.


Why, with everything happening in the world, would I want to talk about reading? The business podcaster Joe Weisenthal has recently turned me on to the ideas of Walter Ong and his book 'Orality and Literacy.' According to Ong, literacy is not just a skill. It is a specific means of structuring society's way of thinking. In oral cultures, Ong says, knowledge is preserved through repetition, mnemonics, and stories. Writing and reading, by contrast, fix words in place. One person can write, and another person, decades later, can read precisely what was written. This word fixing also allows literate culture to develop more abstract and analytical thinking. Writers and readers are, after all, outsourcing a piece of their memory to a page. Today, we seem to be completely reengineering the logic engine of society. The decline of reading in America is not the whole of this phenomenon. But I think that it’s an important part of it.


Today we have two conversations—one with a journalist and one with an academic. First, Atlantic staff writer Rose Horowitch shares her reporting on the decline of reading at elite college campuses. And second, Nat Malkus of the American Enterprise Institute tells us about the alarming decline in literacy across our entire student population and even among adults.


If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com.


Host: Derek Thompson

Guests: Rose Horowitch and Nat Malkus

Producer: Devon Baroldi


Links

"The Elite College Students Who Can’t Read Books"

"Testing Theories of Why: Four Keys to Interpreting US Student Achievement Trends" 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Up next
Oct 7
Why Money Doesn't Buy Happiness in America
America is rich—richer than ever. Yet Americans are more anxious, lonelier, and less satisfied than people in many poorer nations. The 2025 World Happiness Report ranked the U.S. 24th in life satisfaction, its lowest on record. Maybe, as social scientists say, we’ve traded commun ... Show More
48m 38s
Oct 3
Is AI Really About to Solve Human Disease?
I’ve had the privilege of talking to many brilliant people about artificial intelligence. And when you ask them to imagine the most beneficial consequences of this technology, they almost always give the same answer: medicine. The dream is dazzling. Superintelligent AI will cure ... Show More
53m 41s
Sep 30
How America Became a Nation of "Free Speech Hypocrites"
The past few weeks have marked a low point for free speech principles in America. The head of the FCC openly threatened ABC for the language of a comedian. The president told a reporter that networks that are "against" him should have their licenses revoked. The vice president we ... Show More
52m 18s
Recommended Episodes
Dec 2024
The Books We Read in High School (Part 1)
Recently, professors at elite colleges told Atlantic writer Rose Horowitch that their students don’t read whole books anymore. They blamed cell phones, standardized tests, and extracurriculars, and they mostly agreed that the shift began in high school. In this episode of Radio A ... Show More
26m 27s
Nov 2022
This Conversation About the 'Reading Mind' Is a Gift
Every day, we consume a mind-boggling amount of information. We scan online news articles, sift through text messages and emails, scroll through our social-media feeds — and that’s usually before we even get out of bed in the morning. In 2009, a team of researchers found that the ... Show More
1h 9m
Nov 2019
Bonus - Brave New Words: Access to Medicine
Sponsored: Today we feature a full episode of Brave New Words focusing on one of the most pressing issues for Americans: access to medicine and the fight against Big Pharma.  Brave New Words is a new, limited series podcast about the power of changing the narrative of the politic ... Show More
35m 50s
Mar 2025
Karl Berglund, "Reading Audio Readers: Book Consumption in the Streaming Age" (Bloomsbury, 2024)
What is the future of reading? In Reading Audio Readers: Book Consumption in the Digital Age (Bloombury, 2024), Karl Berglund, Assistant Professor in Literature at Department of Literature and Rhetoric at Upsala University, examines the rise of audiobooks as a new mode of reading ... Show More
38m 42s
Jun 2025
Evan Osnos, Author Talks New Book
Evan Osnos, author and New Yorker staff writer, discusses his new book "The Haves and Have-Yachts." The New York Times bestseller breaks down how the ultra-rich hold more of America's wealth now than they ever did, and how a world of superyachts, luxury bunkers and political dona ... Show More
6m 7s
Sep 2023
The Story Gets Better With Special Guest Emily Hanford
In this episode of Literacy Talks, the trio excitedly welcomes Emily Hanford, the award-winning journalist and media producer whose work and Sold a Story podcast have changed the literacy landscape. You’ll hear Emily talk about her career reporting on education and how she uncove ... Show More
45m 14s
May 2025
First Steps to Fluency: How Young Learners Become Independent Readers with Virginia Quinn Mooney
Episode 226In this episode, Virginia discusses the importance of fluency in K-2 grades, emphasizing its role in reading comprehension. She shares strategies for teaching fluency, including within partner reading, read-alouds, and shared reading. Virginia highlights the significan ... Show More
39m 5s
Aug 2022
Why The Loss Of Olivia Newton-John Has Hit Us So Hard
Mamamia Daily brings you the three stories you need to hear today, read by the women who wrote them.  On today's episode: Why The Loss Of Olivia Newton-John Has Hit Us So Hard by Mia Freedman What Exactly Does A Life Admin Assistant Do? by Charlie Begg I Want To Be Able To Choose ... Show More
16m 21s
Oct 2021
Squid Game: Why Is The World Obsessed?
There is no better word to describe the Netflix show Squid Game than 'phenomenon', as it has taken the entire world by storm with more than 111 million loyal viewers, leading many people to ask why a South Korean dystopian horror-drama has proven so popular? The Quicky speaks to ... Show More
19m 43s
Jul 25
100 Years of ‘The Great Gatsby’
This year, “The Great Gatsby” turns 100.A.O. Scott, a critic at large for The New York Times Book Review, tells the story of how an overlooked book by a 28-year-old author eventually became the great American novel, and explores why all of these decades later, we still see oursel ... Show More
41m 52s