logo
episode-header-image
Feb 2025
57m 29s

Emergency pod: Elon tries to crash OpenA...

Rob, Luisa, and the 80,000 Hours team
About this episode

On Monday, Elon Musk made the OpenAI nonprofit foundation an offer they want to refuse, but might have trouble doing so: $97.4 billion for its stake in the for-profit company, plus the freedom to stick with its current charitable mission.

For a normal company takeover bid, this would already be spicy. But OpenAI’s unique structure — a nonprofit foundation controlling a for-profit corporation — turns the gambit into an audacious attack on the plan OpenAI announced in December to free itself from nonprofit oversight.

As today’s guest Rose Chan Loui — founding executive director of UCLA Law’s Lowell Milken Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofits — explains, OpenAI’s nonprofit board now faces a challenging choice.

Links to learn more, highlights, video, and full transcript.

The nonprofit has a legal duty to pursue its charitable mission of ensuring that AI benefits all of humanity to the best of its ability. And if Musk’s bid would better accomplish that mission than the for-profit’s proposal — that the nonprofit give up control of the company and change its charitable purpose to the vague and barely related “pursue charitable initiatives in sectors such as health care, education, and science” — then it’s not clear the California or Delaware Attorneys General will, or should, approve the deal.

OpenAI CEO Sam Altman quickly tweeted “no thank you” — but that was probably a legal slipup, as he’s not meant to be involved in such a decision, which has to be made by the nonprofit board ‘at arm’s length’ from the for-profit company Sam himself runs.

The board could raise any number of objections: maybe Musk doesn’t have the money, or the purchase would be blocked on antitrust grounds, seeing as Musk owns another AI company (xAI), or Musk might insist on incompetent board appointments that would interfere with the nonprofit foundation pursuing any goal.

But as Rose and Rob lay out, it’s not clear any of those things is actually true.

In this emergency podcast recorded soon after Elon’s offer, Rose and Rob also cover:

  • Why OpenAI wants to change its charitable purpose and whether that’s legally permissible
  • On what basis the attorneys general will decide OpenAI’s fate
  • The challenges in valuing the nonprofit’s “priceless” position of control
  • Whether Musk’s offer will force OpenAI to up their own bid, and whether they could raise the money
  • If other tech giants might now jump in with competing offers
  • How politics could influence the attorneys general reviewing the deal
  • What Rose thinks should actually happen to protect the public interest

Chapters:

  • Cold open (00:00:00)
  • Elon throws a $97.4b bomb (00:01:18)
  • What was craziest in OpenAI’s plan to break free of the nonprofit (00:02:24)
  • Can OpenAI suddenly change its charitable purpose like that? (00:05:19)
  • Diving into Elon’s big announcement (00:15:16)
  • Ways OpenAI could try to reject the offer (00:27:21)
  • Sam Altman slips up (00:35:26)
  • Will this actually stop things? (00:38:03)
  • Why does OpenAI even want to change its charitable mission? (00:42:46)
  • Most likely outcomes and what Rose thinks should happen (00:51:17)

Video editing: Simon Monsour
Audio engineering: Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong
Transcriptions: Katy Moore

Up next
Jul 15
Rebuilding after apocalypse: What 13 experts say about bouncing back
What happens when civilisation faces its greatest tests?This compilation brings together insights from researchers, defence experts, philosophers, and policymakers on humanity’s ability to survive and recover from catastrophic events. From nuclear winter and electromagnetic pulse ... Show More
4h 26m
Jul 8
#220 – Ryan Greenblatt on the 4 most likely ways for AI to take over, and the case for and against AGI in <8 years
Ryan Greenblatt — lead author on the explosive paper “Alignment faking in large language models” and chief scientist at Redwood Research — thinks there’s a 25% chance that within four years, AI will be able to do everything needed to run an AI company, from writing code to design ... Show More
2h 50m
Jun 24
#219 – Toby Ord on graphs AI companies would prefer you didn't (fully) understand
The era of making AI smarter just by making it bigger is ending. But that doesn’t mean progress is slowing down — far from it. AI models continue to get much more powerful, just using very different methods, and those underlying technical changes force a big rethink of what comin ... Show More
2h 48m
Recommended Episodes
Jan 2025
With OpenAI seeking profits, activist seeks payback to the public
A battle is brewing over the restructuring of OpenAI, the creator of pioneering artificial intelligence chatbot ChatGPT. It was founded as a nonprofit in 2015 with the goal of developing AI to benefit humanity, not investors. But advanced AI requires massive processing power, whi ... Show More
15m 21s
Oct 2024
OpenAI’s Path to Become a For-Profit Company Is Complicated
OpenAI plans to convert from a non-profit to a for-profit organization, a complex move that is rarely done. WSJ reporter Theo Francis joins host Zoe Thomas to discuss the hurdles that OpenAI will face and the possible reasons for the change. Plus, a controversial bill to regulate ... Show More
13m 16s
Oct 2024
20VC: Why Founder Mode is Dangerous & Could Encourage Bad Behaviour | Why Fundraising is a Waste of Time & OKRs are BS | Why Angel Investing is Bad for Founders to Do and the VC Model is on it's Last
Zach Perret is the CEO and Co-Founder of Plaid, a technology platform reshaping financial services. To date, Zach has raised over $734M for Plaid from the likes of NEA, Spark, GV, Coatue and a16z, to name a few. Today, thousands of companies including the largest fintechs, severa ... Show More
50m 53s
May 2023
Do fundraisers understand the nuances of corporate giving?
How many prospective funders agree to meet as a simple courtesy only to pass up the opportunity that has been presented to them? What if a better understanding of how corporations go about their decision-making processes could reduce the fundraiser’s workload and increase the lik ... Show More
43m 54s
Mar 2025
Nonprofits navigate Trump’s drastic funding cuts, with The Chronicle of Philanthropy CEO Stacy Palmer
President Trump’s dramatic cuts to U.S. government grants are destabilizing every corner of the non-profit sector, leaving organizations scrambling to adapt. Stacy Palmer, CEO of the Chronicle of Philanthropy, explores the executive order’s impact on both the public and private s ... Show More
27m 37s
Apr 2025
Purpose Isn’t Found, It’s Built with Aaron Hurst
In episode 230 of The Business Development Podcast, Kelly Kennedy is joined by Aaron Hurst, bestselling author of The Purpose Economy and a pioneer in the field of meaningful work. Together, they explore the idea that purpose isn’t something we find, but something we intentionall ... Show More
1h 6m
Dec 2024
Fixing Education in America: What's Stopping Us?
Over half of Americans live in childcare deserts, while 90% of brain development happens before the age of five. All the while, education and childcare remain among the most resistant sectors to technological change. Billions of dollars have been spent, but outcomes continue to l ... Show More
38m 54s
Dec 2024
Sam Altman's Equity Dilemma
In this episode of the AI Chat podcast, host Jaeden Schaefer discusses the controversies surrounding OpenAI, particularly focusing on Sam Altman's claims about his equity in the company. The conversation delves into Altman's testimony before Congress, the significant valuation gr ... Show More
14m 4s
Nov 2024
ChatGPT’s First Victim + The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)
Scott and Ed open the show by discussing Spotify and Disney’s earnings, a gambling company’s strong third quarter results, and Elliot Management’s activist investment in Honeywell. Then Scott breaks down how Chegg allowed ChatGPT to take its business to the woodshed and why he th ... Show More
54m 57s
Jul 2024
Pump and Dump Schemes are Now Totally Legal
Send us a textA Texas District Judge Andrew S. Hanen has dismissed all charges against seven social-media influencers the SEC and Justice Department had accused of perpetrating a “stock manipulation scheme” on Twitter and Discord, ruling that the prosecution failed to state an of ... Show More
20m 27s