Why defending viewpoint diversity might be the most radical—and necessary—act in higher education today.

🎧 Episode Summary

What a treat to welcome two leading voices in the fight for viewpoint diversity and constructive civic dialogue: Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at Brookings and author of The Constitution of Knowledge, and Liz Joyner, founder of The Village Square.

As board members of Heterodox Academy (HxA), Jon and Liz unpack the organization’s mission to restore open inquiry and truth-seeking within higher education—and how these values are essential to preserving our democracy at large. With personal stories, sharp analysis, and even a few laughs, they explore what we each can do to counter the ecosystem of illiberalism and strengthen the social fabric.

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🕰️ Timestamps & Topics

[00:00:00] Intro: What’s broken in our democracy and how we fix it
[00:01:00] Meet the guests: Jonathan Rauch and Liz Joyner
[00:03:00] What is Heterodox Academy and how did it begin?
[00:06:00] Rauch on early signs of "wokeness" and Kindly Inquisitors
[00:08:00] Joyner’s grassroots experience with ideological diversity at Village Square
[00:10:00] The "ecosystem of illiberalism" and why liberal principles matter
[00:15:00] Can HxA help defend against external political coercion?
[00:20:00] Are we headed toward institutional collapse or renewal?
[00:25:00] Speech vs. coercion: The cultural and legal frontlines
[00:33:00] Personal costs of speaking out: Corey’s Chappelle story
[00:36:00] What should institutions do to defend free speech?
[00:39:00] On the Trump administration’s authoritarian tactics
[00:45:00] Fears for 2026 and 2028 elections
[00:48:00] Signs of progress: Academic reform, FIRE, and HxA programs
[00:54:00] How to break the cycle of intolerance
[00:56:00] How do we actually talk to people who disagree?
[01:01:00] "Love people back into communion with liberalism"
[01:08:00] The local vs. national divide—learning from LA’s fires & ICE raids
[01:14:00] Final reflections: Reclaiming truth, curiosity, and compassion

💡 Key Takeaways

Liberalism needs defenders: Jon reminds us that truth-seeking demands criticism—and that “criticism hurts, but it’s necessary.”
Civic spaces matter: Liz underscores the importance of local, respectful dialogue and building trust before crisis hits.
The ecosystem is the problem: Illiberalism isn't coming from just one side; it’s a reactive spiral we must all help disrupt.
Institutions must hold firm: It's not disagreement that's dangerous—it's coercion by powerful entities that silence dissent.
Each of us has a role: From book clubs to coffee shops, we can all “love people back into communion with liberalism.”

🧠 Notable Quotes

🗣️ “We are better together. A diverse people can self-govern—if we protect the institutions that help us do so.” – Liz Joyner

🧠 “If I’m talking, I’m not learning. If I’m listening, I probably am.” – Jonathan Rauch

❤️ “What I’d like you to talk about today is how we can love people back into communion with liberalism.” – Quoting Jonathan V. Last (via Liz Joyner)

🔗 Resources & Mentions

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Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

We Deserved To Lose - Kemi Badenoch