logo
episode-header-image
Oct 2024
45m 22s

OpenAI's Noam Brown, Ilge Akkaya and Hun...

Sequoia Capital
About this episode

Combining LLMs with AlphaGo-style deep reinforcement learning has been a holy grail for many leading AI labs, and with o1 (aka Strawberry) we are seeing the most general merging of the two modes to date. o1 is admittedly better at math than essay writing, but it has already achieved SOTA on a number of math, coding and reasoning benchmarks.

Deep RL legend and now OpenAI researcher Noam Brown and teammates Ilge Akkaya and Hunter Lightman discuss the ah-ha moments on the way to the release of o1, how it uses chains of thought and backtracking to think through problems, the discovery of strong test-time compute scaling laws and what to expect as the model gets better. 

Hosted by: Sonya Huang and Pat Grady, Sequoia Capital 

Mentioned in this episode:

  • Learning to Reason with LLMs: Technical report accompanying the launch of OpenAI o1.
  • Generator verifier gap: Concept Noam explains in terms of what kinds of problems benefit from more inference-time compute.
  • Agent57: Outperforming the human Atari benchmark, 2020 paper where DeepMind demonstrated “the first deep reinforcement learning agent to obtain a score that is above the human baseline on all 57 Atari 2600 games.”
  • Move 37: Pivotal move in AlphaGo’s second game against Lee Sedol where it made a move so surprising that Sedol thought it must be a mistake, and only later discovered he had lost the game to a superhuman move.
  • IOI competition: OpenAI entered o1 into the International Olympiad in Informatics and received a Silver Medal.
  • System 1, System 2: The thesis if Danial Khaneman’s pivotal book of behavioral economics, Thinking, Fast and Slow, that positied two distinct modes of thought, with System 1 being fast and instinctive and System 2 being slow and rational.
  • AlphaZero: The predecessor to AlphaGo which learned a variety of games completely from scratch through self-play. Interestingly, self-play doesn’t seem to have a role in o1.
  • Solving Rubik’s Cube with a robot hand: Early OpenAI robotics paper that Ilge Akkaya worked on.
  • The Last Question: Science fiction story by Isaac Asimov with interesting parallels to scaling inference-time compute.
  • Strawberry: Why?
  • O1-mini: A smaller, more efficient version of 1 for applications that require reasoning without broad world knowledge.


00:00 - Introduction

01:33 - Conviction in o1

04:24 - How o1 works

05:04 - What is reasoning?

07:02 - Lessons from gameplay

09:14 - Generation vs verification

10:31 - What is surprising about o1 so far

11:37 - The trough of disillusionment

14:03 - Applying deep RL

14:45 - o1’s AlphaGo moment?

17:38 - A-ha moments

21:10 - Why is o1 good at STEM?

24:10 - Capabilities vs usefulness

25:29 - Defining AGI

26:13 - The importance of reasoning

28:39 - Chain of thought

30:41 - Implication of inference-time scaling laws

35:10 - Bottlenecks to scaling test-time compute

38:46 - Biggest misunderstanding about o1?

41:13 - o1-mini

42:15 - How should founders think about o1?

Up next
Sep 30
Block CTO Dhanji Prasanna: Building the AI-First Enterprise with Goose, their Open Source Agent
As CTO of Block, Dhanji Prasanna has overseen a dramatic enterprise AI transformation, with engineers saving 8-10 hours a week through AI automation. Block’s open-source agent goose connects to existing enterprise tools through MCP, enabling everyone from engineers to sales teams ... Show More
59m 43s
Sep 23
Why Businesses Are Rejecting the AI They’ve Asked For: Agency CEO Elias Torres
Elias Torres has been building AI systems since 1999, from chatbots at IBM to co-founding Drift and now Agency. He believes businesses are caught in an expectation mismatch—demanding AI while rejecting it due to imperfection anxiety. Drawing from his experience scaling HubSpot, E ... Show More
44m 49s
Sep 9
Building the "App Store" for Robots: Hugging Face's Thomas Wolf on Physical AI
Thomas Wolf, co-founder and Chief Science Officer of Hugging Face, explains how his company is applying the same community-driven approach that made transformers accessible to everyone to the emerging field of robotics. Thomas discusses LeRobot, Hugging Face's ambitious project t ... Show More
43m 8s
Recommended Episodes
Nov 2024
AI and the Future of Math, with DeepMind’s AlphaProof Team
In this week’s episode of No Priors, Sarah and Elad sit down with the Google DeepMind team behind AlphaProof, a new reinforcement learning-based system for formal math reasoning that recently reached a silver-medal standard in solving International Mathematical Olympiad problems. ... Show More
39m 21s
Jul 22
AI Just Achieved Something No One Thought it Would Until Years From Now
An experimental reasoning model from OpenAI and Deep Thinking model from Gemini just achieved a Gold Medal performance at the International Math Olympiad. In both cases, the models solved 5 out of 6 IMO problems without any external tools, using pure mathematical reasoning that r ... Show More
26m 5s
Aug 2024
The Zoom Election + Google DeepMind's Math Olympiad + HatGPT! Olympics Edition
This week, with hundreds of thousands of people joining online political rallies for Kamala Harris, we discuss whether 2024 is suddenly becoming the Zoom election, and what that means for both parties’ political organizing. Then, Pushmeet Kohli, a computer scientist at Google Dee ... Show More
1h 1m
Jun 2025
Alexandr Wang: Building Scale AI, Transforming Work with Agents & Competing With China
Alexandr Wang started Scale AI to help machine learning teams label data faster.It started as a simple API for human labor, but behind the scenes, he was tackling a much bigger problem: how to turn messy, real-world data into something AI could learn from. Today, that early idea ... Show More
1h 1m
Feb 2025
OpenAI researcher on why soft skills are the future of work | Karina Nguyen (Research at OpenAI, ex-Anthropic)
Karina Nguyen leads research at OpenAI, where she’s been pivotal in developing groundbreaking products like Canvas, Tasks, and the o1 language model. Before OpenAI, Karina was at Anthropic, where she led post-training and evaluation work for Claude 3 models, created a document up ... Show More
1h 14m
Feb 2025
Scaling AI: Building the Right AI Team
You’re smart. You know your business. But do you know how to build the right AI team? It’s harder than it looks, and the old playbook won’t cut it. In this episode, host Courtney Baker is joined by CEO David DeWolf, Chief Product & Technology Officer Mohan Rao, and NordLight CEO ... Show More
33m 21s
Apr 2024
Applying CPMAI Methodology in the real world: Interview with George Fountain, Booz Allen Hamilton (BAH) [AI Today Podcast]
Companies of all sizes in every industry are looking to see how Artificial Intelligence (AI), machine learning (ML), and cognitive technology projects can provide them a competitive edge. They want to provide efficiencies and improve ROI in today’s competitive landscape. As a res ... Show More
13m 4s
Jul 20
Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann
Benjamin Mann is a co-founder of Anthropic, an AI startup dedicated to building aligned, safety-first AI systems. Prior to Anthropic, Ben was one of the architects of GPT-3 at OpenAI. He left OpenAI driven by the mission to ensure that AI benefits humanity. In this episode, Ben o ... Show More
1h 14m
Jul 22
Are World Models the Key to AGI?
A groundbreaking Harvard study trained AI on 10 million solar systems and found it perfectly predicted orbits but completely failed to understand gravity, raising questions about whether LLMs can develop true world models. While companies pour billions into scaling, Meta's Yann L ... Show More
21m 28s
Feb 2025
AI won't plateau — if we give it time to think | Noam Brown
To get smarter, traditional AI models rely on exponential increases in the scale of data and computing power. Noam Brown, a leading research scientist at OpenAI, presents a potentially transformative shift in this paradigm. He reveals his work on OpenAI's new o1 model, which focu ... Show More
13m 28s