logo
episode-header-image
Sep 2024
27m 33s

Daron Acemoglu on Artificial Intelligenc...

SAGE PUBLISHING
About this episode

Listening to the ongoing debate about artificial intelligence, one could be forgiven for assuming that the technology is either a bogeyman or a savior, with little ground in between. But that’s not the stance of economist Daron Acemoglu, professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the author, with Simon Johnson, of the new book Power and Progress: Our Thousand-Year Struggle Over Technology and Prosperity. Combining a cogent historical analysis of past technological revolutions, he examines whether a groundbreaking new technology “augments” the status quo, as opposed to merely squeezing out human labor.

“[M]y favorite term is ‘creating new tasks’ because I think it really clarifies what the quote unquote augmenting needs to take the form of,” he tells interviewer David Edmonds in this Social Science Bites podcast. “It's not just making a worker more productive in tightening the screws, but it's really creating new jobs that didn't exist.” And so, he explains to those perhaps afraid that a bot is gunning for their livelihood, “Automation is not our enemy. Excessive automation is our enemy.”

This is not to depict Acemoglu as an apologist for our new silicon taskmasters. Current trends such as the consolidation of power among technology companies, a focus on shareholder returns at the expense of all else, a blind trust in companies to somehow muddle through to societal equilibrium, and a slavish drive to automate everything immediately all leave him cold: “I feel AI is going in the wrong direction and taking us down with it.”

His conversation doesn’t end there, thankfully, and he offers some hopeful words on how we might find that modus vivendi with AI, including (but by no means only relying on) “the soft hand of the state in tipping the scales one way or another.”

Acemoglu is an elected fellow of the National Academy of Sciences, the American Philosophical Society, the British Academy of Sciences, the Turkish Academy of Sciences, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the Econometric Society, the European Economic Association, and the Society of Labor Economists. He is also a member of the academic-cum-policymaker group of economic movers and shakers known as the Group of 30.

Besides Power and Progress, his books include the popular bestseller Why Nations Fail: Power, Prosperity, and Poverty written with James Robinson. Acemoglu has received a number of prizes, including two inaugural awards in 2004, the T. W. Shultz Prize from the University of Chicago and the Sherwin Rosen Award for outstanding contribution to labor economics. He received the John Bates Clark Medal in 2005, the Erwin Plein Nemmers Prize in 2012, and the 2016 BBVA Frontiers of Knowledge Award, as well as the Distinguished Science Award from the Turkish Sciences Association in 2006 and a Carnegie Fellowship in 2017.

Up next
Oct 1
Setha Low on Public Spaces
Having been raised in Los Angeles, a place with vast swathes of single-family homes connected by freeways, arriving in Costa Rica was an eye opener for the young cultural anthropologist Setha Low. “I thought it was so cool that everybody was there together,” she tells interview D ... Show More
25m 56s
Sep 2
Victor Buchli on Life in Low-Earth Orbit
As an anthropologist, Victor Buchli has one foot in the Neolithic past and another in the space-faring future. A professor of material culture at University College London, his research has taken him from excavations of the New Stone Age site at Çatalhöyük, Turkey to studies of t ... Show More
15m 52s
Aug 4
Ramanan Laxminarayan on Antibiotic Use
Let’s say you were asked to name the greatest health risks facing the planet. Priceton University economist Ramanan Laxminarayan, founder and director of the One Health Trust, would urgently suggest you include anti-microbial resistance near the top of that list. “We're really in ... Show More
20m 4s
Recommended Episodes
Oct 2024
Acemoglu on Automation: The Nobel Laureate Vs. the Robots (with Daron Acemoglu)
Since Daron Acemoglu just won the 2024 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences alongside MIT Sloan professor Simon Johnson and University of Chicago professor James Robinson, we’re revisiting  this powerful episode featuring Acemoglu’s insights from 2023. In his groundbreaking ... Show More
53m 54s
Jan 2025
Antonio A. Casilli, "Waiting for Robots: The Hired Hands of Automation" (U Chicago Press, 2025)
Artificial Intelligence fuels both enthusiasm and panic. Technologists are inclined to give their creations leeway, pretend they’re animated beings, and consider them efficient. As users, we may complain when these technologies don’t obey, or worry about their influence on our ch ... Show More
55m 32s
May 2024
AI Hype and Skepticism: Economist Paul Romer
Paul Romer once considered himself the most optimistic economist. He rightfully predicted that technology would blow up as an economic driver coming out of the inflation of the 1970s but acknowledges he did not foresee the inequality that technology advances would lead to. On thi ... Show More
29m 19s
Sep 2024
The Road to Singularity: Ben Goertzel on AGI and The Fate of Humanity
Dr. Ben Goertzel is a multidisciplinary scientist, entrepreneur, and author, originally from Brazil. He currently resides on an island near Seattle after living in Hong Kong. He leads prominent AI organizations like the SingularityNET Foundation, OpenCog Foundation, and the AGI S ... Show More
2h 25m
Aug 5
The Co-Intelligence Revolution: How Humans and AI Co-Create New Value
A new industrial revolution is here – not one defined by automation and the substitution of human intelligence, but by co-intelligence, where human ingenuity and AI collaborate. Authors Venkat Ramaswamy & Krishnan Narayanan join Google to discuss their book, The Co-Intelligence R ... Show More
1h 10m
Jun 2025
Neil Lawrence on taking down the 'digital oligarchy' and why we shouldn't fear AI
When you think of Artificial Intelligence, does it inspire confidence, or concern?Although it's now generally accepted that this technology will play a major role in our future, a lot of conversations around AI and machine learning come back to the argument over us losing control ... Show More
28m 35s
Jun 2025
Is AI Productivity Worth Our Humanity? with Prof. Michael Sandel
Tech leaders promise that AI automation will usher in an age of unprecedented abundance: cheap goods, universal high income, and freedom from the drudgery of work. But even if AI delivers material prosperity, will that prosperity be shared? And what happens to human dignity if ou ... Show More
46m 45s
Aug 22
AI and Accelerationism with Marc Andreessen
Marc Andreessen, cofounder Andreessen Horowitz, joins the Hermitix podcast for a conversation on AI, accelerationism, energy, and the future.From the thermodynamic roots of effective accelerationism (E/acc) to the cultural cycles of optimism and fear around new technologies, Marc ... Show More
1h 9m
Dec 2023
Palo Alto: The Grit Beneath Tech’s Glitter
Join us for a conversation on the seedy underside to Tech’s past, present, and future. This event took place on May 30, 2023. If the industry’s most credulous boosters are to be taken at their word, the contemporary tech industry is an economic freight train driven by big-brained ... Show More
1h 28m
Jul 2022
Human justice and machine intelligence | Joanna Bryson
Should we be scared of AI?Looking for a link we mentioned? It's here: https://linktr.ee/philosophyforourtimesJoanna Bryson discusses how she became interested in the ways different species use intelligence, how the typical tropes in science fiction misunderstand AI and the proble ... Show More
18m 46s