Elise Hu joins us for a tale of startup bros and the hermit crabs that come between them. Buy Elise's book, Flawless: Lessons in Looks and Culture from the K-Beauty Capital. PRE-ORDER KELSEY'S BOOK, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, HERE!!! Subscribe to our new newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) and Ozzy Llinas Goodman. Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira) is our associate producer. Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

Minder, the Finder, and the Grinder with...