Jag Duggal is chief product officer at Nubank, a decacorn neobank founded in Brazil. It’s valued at over $30 billion, is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, and SoFi combined, has 100 million customers (more than Bank of America!) while only operating in three countries in Latin America, and 80% to 90% of its growth comes through word of mouth. Prior to Nubank, Jag was a director of product management at Facebook, a senior vice president at Quantcast, and a product leader at Google. In our conversation, we discuss:
• How Nubank builds a fanatical user base
• Tactics for driving word-of-mouth growth
• Measuring customer love through the Sean Ellis score
• The importance of strategic clarity
• The role of category design in creating successful products
• Why companies should strive to be “fundamentally different,” not “incrementally better”
• Nubank’s vision for an AI-powered banking future
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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/be-fundamentally-different-jag-duggal
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Where to find Jag Duggal:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jagduggal/
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Jag’s background
(04:34) Nubank’s remarkable achievements
(06:01) Nubank’s product development process
(11:23) Nubank’s values
(12:16) Building products people love fanatically
(15:21) The Sean Ellis score
(21:27) An example project using the Sean Ellis score
(25:07) Picking up the phone and calling customers
(28:20) The importance of starting small and iterating
(30:42) Pushing back effectively
(34:10) Uncovering pain points through customer research
(37:53) An example of setting a clear hypothesis
(42:01) Developing a strategy
(52:16) “Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better”
(53:10) Category design
(57:37) Nubank’s founding story and goals for the future
(01:00:46) Advice for adding new product lines
(01:03:46) The future of fintech and banking
(01:09:23) AI corner
(01:12:34) Failure corner
(01:20:24) Key takeaways
(01:22:11) Lightning round
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Referenced:
• Nubank: https://nubank.com.br/en/
• Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/
• Robinhood: https://www.robinhood.com/
• SoFi: https://www.sofi.com/
• Affirm: https://www.affirm.com/
• Lemonade: https://www.lemfi.com/
• Bank of America: https://www.bankofamerica.com/
• Nubank achieves a world record with more than 7 million people participating in NuBolão in one month: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-achieves-world-record-with-nubolao
• Nu México carries out first financial transaction 20 meters under the depth of the sea: https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/nu-mexico-carries-out-first-financial-transaction-20-meters-under-the-depth-of-the-sea
• David Vélez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-v%C3%A9lez-1004875
• Cristina Junqueira on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crisjunqueira
• Edward Wible on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamedwardwible
• Sequoia Capital: https://www.sequoiacap.com/
• Churrascaria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churrascaria
• Nubank’s real foundation: our culture and values: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-culture-and-values/
• Working Backwards Press Release Template and Example: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/working-backwards-press-release-template-example-ian-mcallister/
• Sean Ellis test: https://productcoalition.com/using-sean-ellis-test-for-measuring-your-product-market-fit-c8ac98053c2c
• How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-know-if-youve-got-productmarket
• Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/
• Ultravioleta: Nubank expands its premium card offer and adds new features on the product’s first anniversary: https://international.nubank.com.br/company/ultravioleta-nubank-expands-its-premium-card-offer-and-adds-new-features-on-the-products-first-anniversary/
• Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast #405: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY
• The Innovation Method Behind Swiffer Madness: https://www.fastcompany.com/3006797/innovation-method-behind-swiffer-madness
• Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/
• Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard
• Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239
• The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/
• How to become a category pirate | Christopher Lochhead (author of Play Bigger, Niche Down, Category Pirates, more): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-become-a-category-pirate-christopher
• Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets: https://www.amazon.com/Play-Bigger-Dreamers-Innovators-Dominate/dp/0062407619
• Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X
• A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market
• Citi: https://www.citi.com/
• Santander Bank: https://www.santanderbank.com/
• Fidji Sumo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidjisimo/
• Harvard Kennedy School: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/
• Susan Wojcicki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-wojcicki-b136a99/
• Coldplay—“Lost+” ft. Jay-Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCDRm_YRFg
• Google Buys DoubleClick for $3.1 Billion: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/14/technology/14DoubleClick.html
• Real-time bidding: https://support.google.com/authorizedbuyers/answer/6136272
• From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000: https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-First-Singapore-1965-2000/dp/0060197765/
• The Gilded Age on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-gilded-age
• Lomi: https://lomi.com/
• Nubank careers: https://international.nubank.com.br/careers/
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.