logo
episode-header-image
Apr 2024
1h 2m

DOJ vs Data Espionage

JORDAN SCHNEIDER
About this episode

The DOJ is now charged with protecting American data from foreign adversaries. This new proposed rule they recently issued is, according to one observer, “one of the most ambitious and sweeping new initiatives in national security law over the past few years.”

To discuss, we interviewed Devin DeBacker and Lee Licata of the Department of Justice’s National Security Division.

We get into:

  • How adversaries plan to weaponize obscure data types — including geolocation data, DNA sequencing, and undersea cable transmissions;
  • How China managed to purchase genomic data on millions of Americans through healthcare investments;
  • Why black box data brokers keep records of who goes to casinos;
  • How the DOJ plans to protect your data, and whether their plans can be thwarted by gridlock in Congress.


I’m excited to introduce a partnership with Policyware to bring affordable, expert-driven policy education to my audience. Starting May 14, Samm Sacks will be teaching a deep dive into China’s Digital Governance and its Global Implications.

Samm is an old friend of mine and a Senior Fellow at Yale Law School’s Paul Tsai China Center. She is a leading expert on China’s cybersecurity legal system, the U.S.-China technology relationship, and the geopolitics of data privacy and cross-border data flows. Check out below a show I did with Samm on ChinaTalk discussing China’s digital governance.

You’ll learn over several weeks as Samm delivers live classes, with options to listen on your own time. Policyware Deep Dives are designed to be attended alongside your job, and they will help you organize with your employer for cost sharing. Check out the show we did together on data issues late last year.

Help support ChinaTalk by registering for the deep dive here and thank you to Policyware for sponsoring today’s episode.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Up next
Aug 22
NVIDIA GPU Black Market Smuggling
Are GPUs being smuggled into China? Nvidia says no. But Steve Burke, editor in chief of Gamer Nexus, has traced out the entire smuggling chain in an epic three-hour YouTube documentary. He filmed another three-hour documentary exploring the impact of tariffs on America’s supply c ... Show More
56m 46s
Aug 20
Learning from Ukraine, Preparing for Taiwan
Mick Ryan is a retired major general in the Australian army and author of three books — War Transformed: The Future of Twenty-First-Century Great Power Competition and Conflict, White Sun War, which is a piece of fiction about a near-future Taiwan war, and The War for Ukraine: St ... Show More
1h 7m
Aug 14
Transistor Radio: H20, GPT5, DUI Lawyers, Ajinomoto
Jon, Doug, Dylan and Wei join the chat to talk export controls and GPT5. Books Doug and I like: Jonathan Spence's Search for Modern China Gavan Daws' Shoal of Time Joseph Heinrich's The Secret of Our Success Outtro Music: Europhia II from kkluv's new album https://open.spotify.co ... Show More
1h 3m
Recommended Episodes
Jan 2025
The hidden cost of data hoarding. [Research Saturday]
This week, we are joined by Kyla Cardona and Aurora Johnson from SpyCloud discussing their research "China’s Surveillance State Is Selling Citizen Data as a Side Hustle." Chinese technology companies, under CCP mandate, collect vast amounts of data on citizens, creating opportuni ... Show More
34m 38s
Jan 2025
U.S. sanctions spark cyber showdown with China.
China criticizes U.S. sanctions. School districts face cyberattacks over the holiday season. The U.N.’s International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is investigating a potential data breach. Eagerbee malware targets government organizations and ISPs in the Middle East. A majo ... Show More
33m 17s
Jan 2025
A breach in the U.S. Treasury.
Chinese hackers breach the U.S. Treasury Department. At least 35 Chrome extensions are compromised. Federal authorities arrest a U.S. Army soldier over accusations of sensitive data stolen from AT&T and Verizon. A misconfigured Amazon cloud server exposes sensitive data from over ... Show More
36m 12s
Sep 2024
They really are watching what we watch.
An FTC report confirms online surveillance and privacy concerns. Ukraine bans Telegram for state and security officials. Sensitive customer data from India’s largest health insurer is leaked. German law enforcement shuts down multiple cryptocurrency exchange services. HZ RAT sets ... Show More
33m 58s
Aug 2021
T-Mobile outlines what it’s offering customers hit by its data breach. Taliban on good T&C behavior? Apple’s CSAM. OS bug may affect medical devices. A report on 2020’s US Census Bureau hack.
T-Mobile describes what it intends to do for those who may have been affected by its big data breach. The Taliban is taking care not to get banned from social media. Apple defends its CSAM measures against a technical objection, but advocacy groups see a slippery policy slope. Th ... Show More
30m 10s
Sep 2024
Brazil nixes Twitter’s successor.
Brazil blocks access to X/Twitter. Transport for London has been hit with a cyberattack. Threat actors have poisoned GlobalProtect VPN software to deliver WikiLoader. “Voldemort” is a significant international cyber-espionage campaign. Researchers uncover an SQL injection flaw wi ... Show More
34m 3s
Jul 2024
Breaking Bad (records).
ZScaler uncovers the largest ransomware payment to date. IBM says the average cost of a breach is closing in on five million dollars. Hackers exploited Proofpoint's email protection platform to send millions of phishing emails. NIST launches Dioptra to test ML models. AcidPour ta ... Show More
32m 27s
May 2021
Top Counterintelligence Official Michael Orlando on Non-Traditional Collection and China Threats
In this episode of Intelligence Matters, host Michael Morell speaks with Mike Orlando, the acting director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center, about the range of foreign espionage threats facing the United States from adversaries and challengers like Russia a ... Show More
39m 36s
Nov 2019
Arrest by algorithm. Dangers of data enrichment. Golden Falcon in Kazakhstan. FCC vs. Huawei and ZTE. Internet sovereignty. Chuckling Squad popped for Twitter caper. Other crime and punishment.
A defection and a leak expose Chinese espionage and social control operations. Data aggregation and enrichment seem to underlie a big inadvertent data exposure. Something seems to be up in Kazakhstan’s networks. The US FCC takes a swing at Huawei and ZTE. Russia moves closer to i ... Show More
21m 47s
Jul 2024
AT&T's not so LOL hack.
AT&T wireless announces a massive data breach. NATO will build a cyber defense center in Belgium. The White House outlines cybersecurity budget priorities.A popular phone spyware app suffers a major data breach.Some Linksys routers are sending user credentials in the clear. Sysdi ... Show More
36m 41s