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Mar 2024
47m 40s

Senior CIA Ops Officer John Atwell on Cu...

Grey Dynamics
About this episode

Welcome back to the Grey Dynamics Podcast! Today, we are talking to John Atwell. John spent over twenty-three years of experience in operational and analysis roles at the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Since leaving the agency, John has spent time as a consultant, become a columnist for the Haiwaii-Tribune Herald, became editor of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers and a college lecturer at Haiwaii Community College. We discussed the culture shift in CIA after 9/11, views on allied and adversarial agencies around the world, advice for a career in intelligence and much more.


Find John Atwell:



We Spoke About:


  • 0:32 - John Atwell’s background
  • 4:59 - What made John suitable for an operational role at CIA?
  • 9:10 - The shift towards paramilitarism at CIA after 9/11
  • 12:21 - Will CIA return to its pre-9/11 culture with its focus back to strategic targets?
  • 15:04 - CIA and diversity
  • 19:40 - Which international intelligence agencies was John impressed by during his career?
  • 21:31 - Thoughts on adversarial intelligence agencies
  • 23:44 - The growing use of intelligence and counter intelligence by non-state actors
  • 26:56 - Is the swing to OSINT, geospatial and cyber at the detriment of HUMINT?
  • 29:38 - Why John did not join the private sector after leaving the intelligence community
  • 32:06 - John on working with his wife at CIA
  • 33:08 - What advice would you give someone who wants a career in intelligence?
  • 35:59 - Ahmed’s career journey
  • 40:51 - Cultural Recommendations


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