logo
episode-header-image
Mar 2024
1h 36m

An Unfinished History of the Holocaust

MICHAEL SHERMER
About this episode

The Holocaust is much discussed, much memorialized, and much portrayed. But there are major aspects of its history that have been overlooked.

Spanning the entirety of the Holocaust, this sweeping history deepens our understanding. Dan Stone—Director of the Holocaust Research Institute at Royal Holloway, University of London—reveals how the idea of "industrial murder" is incomplete: many were killed where they lived in the most brutal of ways. He outlines the depth of collaboration across Europe, arguing persuasively that we need to stop thinking of the Holocaust as an exclusively German project. He also considers the nature of trauma the Holocaust engendered, and why Jewish suffering has yet to be fully reckoned with. And he makes clear that the kernel to understanding Nazi thinking and action is genocidal ideology, providing a deep analysis of its origins.

Drawing on decades of research, The Holocaust: An Unfinished History upends much of what we think we know about the Holocaust. Stone draws on Nazi documents, but also on diaries, post-war testimonies, and even fiction, urging that, in our age of increasing nationalism and xenophobia, it is vital that we understand the true history of the Holocaust.

Shermer and Stone discuss: what is unfinished in the history of the Shoah • Holocaust denial • psychology of fascist fascination and genocidal fantasy • alt-right • ideological roots of Nazism and German anti-Semitism • industrial genocide • magical thinking • Hitler's willing executioners • the Holocaust as a continent-wide crime • motivations of the executioners • the banality of evil • Wannsee Conference (1942).

Dan Stone is Professor of Modern History and Director of the Holocaust Research Institute at Royal Holloway, University of London. He is the author or editor of numerous articles and books, including: Histories of the Holocaust (Oxford University Press); The Liberation of the Camps: The End of the Holocaust and its Aftermath (Yale University Press); and Concentration Camps: A Very Short Introduction (Oxford University Press). His new book is The Holocaust: An Unfinished History.

Up next
Oct 17
Why Consciousness Needs a Body
Why does being alive feel like something? Neuroscientist Antonio Damasio argues that the answer begins with the body's need to stay alive. Hunger, thirst, pain, and pleasure tell us how we're doing and push us to act. These basic feelings, he says, are the foundation of conscious ... Show More
1h 19m
Oct 10
Racism and White Guilt: Has America Changed More Than We Admit? | Shelby Steele & Eli Steele
Can fighting racism end up reinforcing it? Shelby Steele grew up under segregation and became a Black militant in the 1960s. Today, he argues that White guilt has created a different racial problem: treating Black Americans as permanent victims who cannot succeed without White he ... Show More
41m 37s
Sep 28
Would You Want to Know If You Were Wrong?
What do you make of an experience you can't explain? A strange light in the sky, a book flying off a desk, a coincidence that feels too improbable to be chance? Social psychologist Barry Markovsky joins Michael Shermer to discuss his new book Everyday Extraordinary and the experi ... Show More
1h 38m
Recommended Episodes
Mar 2023
The mindset behind the Holocaust
The Holocaust is an event so vast and terrible it can often be hard to wrap our heads around it. But what motivated those who perpetrated horrific crimes in the name of the Third Reich, and how did they justify their actions? Speaking to Ellie Cawthorne, Martin Davidson discusses ... Show More
38m 52s
Jan 2025
The big questions of the Holocaust
How did the Nazis’ poisonous antisemitic rhetoric eventually culminate in the systematic mass-murder of millions? Speaking to Rachel Dinning back in 2023, historian Laurence Rees charts the course of the Holocaust – from its origins to its devastating conclusion. Holocaust Memor ... Show More
44m 23s
Jan 2024
Holocaust history
Historians continue to unearth documents, interpret new records accounts and reinterpret old ones in their light. In doing so they expand our understanding of unfolding antisemitism and the holocaust. Anne McElvoy speaks to Barbara Warnock the senior curator of the Wiener Holocau ... Show More
45m 23s
Feb 2024
EP28 Superhumanly Inhuman
This show starts off with an extended discussion of the genocide of Jews in the Holocaust and the associated dangers of extreme governmental power followed by an interview with Holocaust expert and historian Dan Stone. 
3h 18m
Oct 2016
Never Forget: The Holocaust and Nazi Persecution
In this talk - held as part of Holocaust Memorial Day - record specialists Ela Kaczmarska and Lauren Willmott shed light on the atrocities committed during this dark period of history and the millions of victims who were persecuted by the Nazis' fascist ideology. 
38m 12s
Jun 2024
A 21st-century Holocaust trial
In October 2019 Bruno Dey went on trial in Hamburg for his involvement in a horrific crime – 75 years after that crime had been committed. Dey was now an old man but in his youth he had served as a guard in Stutthof concentration camp, where thousands of people had been murdered ... Show More
33m 38s