logo
episode-header-image
Feb 2024
1h 1m

Demis Hassabis - Scaling, Superhuman AIs...

Dwarkesh Patel
About this episode

Here is my episode with Demis Hassabis, CEO of Google DeepMind

We discuss:

* Why scaling is an artform

* Adding search, planning, & AlphaZero type training atop LLMs

* Making sure rogue nations can't steal weights

* The right way to align superhuman AIs and do an intelligence explosion

Watch on YouTube. Listen on Apple PodcastsSpotify, or any other podcast platform. Read the full transcript here.

Timestamps

(0:00:00) - Nature of intelligence

(0:05:56) - RL atop LLMs

(0:16:31) - Scaling and alignment

(0:24:13) - Timelines and intelligence explosion

(0:28:42) - Gemini training

(0:35:30) - Governance of superhuman AIs

(0:40:42) - Safety, open source, and security of weights

(0:47:00) - Multimodal and further progress

(0:54:18) - Inside Google DeepMind



Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at www.dwarkeshpatel.com/subscribe
Up next
Oct 4
Some thoughts on the Sutton interview
I have a much better understanding of Sutton’s perspective now. I wanted to reflect on it a bit.(00:00:00) - The steelman(00:02:42) - TLDR of my current thoughts(00:03:22) - Imitation learning is continuous with and complementary to RL(00:08:26) - Continual learning(00:10:31) - C ... Show More
11m 39s
Sep 26
Richard Sutton – Father of RL thinks LLMs are a dead end
Richard Sutton is the father of reinforcement learning, winner of the 2024 Turing Award, and author of The Bitter Lesson. And he thinks LLMs are a dead end.After interviewing him, my steel man of Richard’s position is this: LLMs aren’t capable of learning on-the-job, so no matter ... Show More
1h 6m
Sep 12
Fully autonomous robots are much closer than you think – Sergey Levine
Sergey Levine, one of the world’s top robotics researchers and co-founder of Physical Intelligence, thinks we’re on the cusp of a “self-improvement flywheel” for general-purpose robots. His median estimate for when robots will be able to run households entirely autonomously? 2030 ... Show More
1h 28m
Recommended Episodes
May 2025
Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis + Google Co-Founder Sergey Brin: Scaling AI, AGI Timeline, Simulation Theory
Demis Hassabis is the CEO of Google DeepMind. Sergey Brin is the co-founder of Google. The two leading tech executives join Alex Kantrowitz for a live interview at Google's IO developer conference to discuss the frontiers of AI research. Tune in to hear their perspective on wheth ... Show More
30m 47s
Feb 2025
Industry Roundup #3: The Rise of Reasoning LLMs, OpenAI Operator, Project Stargate, and Gemini’s Struggle for Recognition
Welcome to DataFramed Industry Roundups! In this series of episodes, Adel & Richie sit down to discuss the latest and greatest in data & AI. In this episode, we discuss the rise of reasoning LLMs like DeepSeek R1 and the competition shaping the AI space, OpenAI’s Operator and the ... Show More
29m 46s
Feb 2025
#64 Ex-Google Exec Reveals The Shocking Truth About AI with Mo Gawdat
Mo Gawdat is the former Chief Business Officer at Google X, an AI expert, and a best-selling author. He has been recognized for his early whistleblowing on AI's unregulated development and has become one of the most globally consulted experts on the topic. With years of experienc ... Show More
2h 9m
Mar 2022
The promise of AI with Demis Hassabis
Hannah wraps up the series by meeting DeepMind co-founder and CEO, Demis Hassabis. In an extended interview, Demis describes why he believes AGI is possible, how we can get there, and the problems he hopes it will solve. Along the way, he highlights the important role of consciou ... Show More
30m 28s
Sep 5
How to Be An AI Leader (According to OpenAI)
OpenAI has published a new leadership guide for executives, laying out five principles — align, activate, amplify, accelerate, and govern — designed to help organizations lead in the age of AI. This episode breaks down the most important lessons, the subtext behind OpenAI’s recom ... Show More
28m 11s
Sep 23
How Microsoft is Fixing the Biggest AI Agent Problem
Want the guide to create AI Agents? get it here: https://clickhubspot.com/fhc Episode 77: Are we nearing a future where AI agents can autonomously tackle our biggest challenges—while remaining efficient, safe, and truly aligned with human goals? Matt Wolfe (https://x.com/mreflow) ... Show More
30m 8s
Jul 29
Scaling and the Road to Human-Level AI | Anthropic Co-founder Jared Kaplan
Jared Kaplan on June 16th, 2025 at AI Startup School in San Francisco.Jared Kaplan started out as a theoretical physicist chasing questions about the universe. Then he helped uncover one of AI’s most surprising truths: that intelligence scales in a predictable, almost physical wa ... Show More
40m 47s
Mar 2024
Venkatesh Rao: Protocols, Intelligence, and Scaling
“There is this move from generality in a relative sense of ‘we are not as specialized as insects’ to generality in the sense of omnipotent, omniscient, godlike capabilities. And I think there's something very dangerous that happens there, which is you start thinking of the word ‘ ... Show More
2h 18m
Aug 29
WIRED Roundup: Meta’s AI Brain Drain
In today’s episode, Zöe is joined by WIRED’s Leah Feiger to run through five of the best stories you need to know about — from how AI is eliminating entry level jobs to how a secretive Democrat group is funding high-profile influencers. Then, Zöe and Leah dive into the scoop that ... Show More
12m 51s
Feb 2025
Sam Altman's Wild 2035 Prediction
OpenAI CEO Sam Altman just dropped a new blog post outlining his vision for AGI, AI economics, and the next decade. His key prediction? By 2035, any individual will have access to as much intelligence as the world today. Is this realistic, or just more hype? This episode breaks d ... Show More
22m 16s