We're excited to announce that our special episodes on Palestine are turning into their own podcast. The atrocities that continue to take place in Palestine are a reminder that, more than ever, we need to dedicate our platforms to stand for justice and truth.
"This is not a watermelon" is a podcast about Palestinian history and culture. In this episode, we sat down with Andy Clarno, author of "Neoliberal Apartheid: Palestine/Israel and South Africa after 1994" to understand more about transnational solidarity particularly between South Africa and Palestine. He helped us define apartheid and neoliberalism, sharing what he considers to be a useful working definition of the terms, unpacking their origins, and explaining what systems and realities they actually refer to. We discussed what it takes to dismantle such systems and how essential the Boycott, Divestment and Sanction movement is.
Andy sheds light on the decades-strong transnational solidarity between South Africa and Palestine, walks through the steps it took to achieve liberation in South Africa, and considers whether the post-apartheid South African model is what Palestine should be aspiring to. Finally, Andy explains the concepts of racial capitalism and the relationship between neoliberalism and new forms of apartheid.
This episode was recorded on December 21st 2023 at 6pm Palestine Time.
0:00 Introduction
1:02 Understanding the term "apartheid"
6:05 Do you think apartheid is always destined to fail?
9:37 Transnational Solidarity: South Africa and Palestine
12:46 Dismantling apartheid in South Africa
23:09 Is post-Apartheid South Africa what Palestine should be aspiring to?
29:06 What is "Neo-liberal" apartheid?
36:52 Boycott, Divest, Sanction
42:28 Illuminating voices that are speaking out on Palestine
47:55 When did support for Apartheid regime in South Africa dwindle in Europe and the US?
50:47 Reading recommendations
Andy Clarno is an associate professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. He is the coordinator of the Policing in Chicago Research Group and specialises in Sociology and Black Studies. His research interests include racism, capitalism, colonialism, empire, policing and comparative racial formation. He is the author of Neoliberal Apartheid.
About "Neoliberal Apartheid":
This book traces the shifting dynamics of racial capitalism and settler colonialism in South Africa and Palestine/Israel after 1994. The book addresses the limitations of liberation in South Africa, highlights the impact of neoliberal restructuring in Palestine/Israel, and argues that a new form of “neoliberal apartheid” has emerged in both regions.
THIS SERIES IS PART OF THE AFIKRA PODCAST NETWORK
Explore other episodes in this series:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfYG40bwRKl40ZRFvo_VVYg6i56flEjSK
ABOUT AFIKRA
afikra | عفكرة is a movement to convert passive interest in the Arab world to active intellectual curiosity. We aim to collectively reframe the dominant narrative of the region by exploring the histories and cultures of the region – past, present and future – through conversations driven by curiosity.
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