logo
episode-header-image
Oct 2023
15m 57s

Submarines and Gag Orders with Kevin Car...

Tom Fox
About this episode

In this episode of All Things Investigations, host Tom Fox and Kevin Carroll discuss the alarming revelation that former President Trump allegedly shared sensitive information about nuclear submarines with an Australian civilian, as well as a peculiar court hearing involving a limited gag order on Trump. They explore the gravity of the information shared, its implications on national security, and the potential legal repercussions. 


Kevin is a partner in the Washington, D.C., and New York offices of Hughes Hubbard & Reed in the White Collar & Regulatory Defense and Anti-Corruption & Internal Investigations practice groups. He also helps counsel businesses on CFIUS/FIRRMA, cyber security and data privacy, EAR/ITAR, FARA, FCPA, FISA, FMS, NISPOM, and OFAC compliance. 


You’ll hear Tom and Kevin discuss:

  • President Trump allegedly discussed secrets about nuclear submarines with an Australian civilian, Anthony Pratt.
  • Kevin emphasizes the seriousness of this revelation, highlighting the crucial role submarines play in national security, including preserving Taiwan's independence and intelligence collection.
  • Strategic missile submarines (boomers) are the ultimate nuclear guarantee, capable of retaliatory strikes against adversaries, and their secrecy is paramount.
  • Kevin is surprised that additional charges were not laid against Trump for willfully communicating classified information to an uncleared foreign national.
  • The disclosure of classified information poses a risk to national security, as adversaries may adapt their tactics and enhance technology based on the shared information. 
  • There is no remedy once sensitive information is released; the damage caused may be irreversible.
  • The intelligence relationship between the United States and Australia is one of the closest, with both countries part of the Five Eyes alliance.
  • A limited gag order was imposed on President Trump after an unusual hearing related to a motion brought by Special Counsel Jack Smith.
  • Kevin criticizes the defense lawyers' aggressive approach and disrespectful behavior toward the federal judge during the hearing.
  • The judge's decision to impose a limited gag order is a necessary step to prevent potential harm to individuals targeted by Trump's remarks.
  • The broader societal implications of such unchecked criticisms from a public figure like Trump, with a significant following, are emphasized.
  • Judges may consider escalating fines as a deterrent to gain Trump's attention and prevent further damage and incitement of violence.
  • Trump's potential strategy may be to use incarceration as a political narrative, portraying himself as a victim.
  • Kevin believes fines would be a more effective deterrent and expresses hope that financial penalties would capture Trump's attention.
  • Repeated violations of the gag order is a strategy Trump may use to attempt to poison the jury pool. Such efforts might have more impact in Florida and Georgia.
  • Venue selection in high-profile cases is crucial to ensure a fair trial.
  • Lawyers have the responsibility to weed out jurors with preconceived notions, regardless of the case's profile. However, in some cases, it's impossible to find a jury unaffected by public awareness.


Resources

Hughes Hubbard & Reed website

Kevin Carroll on LinkedIn

Up next
Sep 29
Sean Reilly on Tariffs
Welcome to the Hughes Hubbard Anti-Corruption & Internal Investigations Practice Group’s podcast All Things Investigation. In this podcast, host Tom Fox welcomes back Sean Riley to discuss the complexities of tariffs under the current administration. Their conversation highlights ... Show More
22m 42s
Sep 11
FinCEN’s Recent Actions: Existential Threat for Financial Institutions in Mexico
Welcome to the Hughes Hubbard Anti-Corruption & Internal Investigations Practice Group’s podcast, All Things Investigation. In this podcast, host Tom Fox welcomes back Jeremy Paner and Diego Durán de la Vega to discuss recent FinCEN enforcement actions targeting three Mexican fin ... Show More
31m 14s
Aug 25
DOJ’s Evolving Guidelines: Implications from Liberty Mutual’s FCPA Case
Welcome to the Hughes Hubbard Anti-Corruption & Internal Investigations Practice Group’s podcast, All Things Investigation. In this podcast, host Tom Fox welcomes back Mike DeBernardis to discuss the recently released first Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) enforcement action, ... Show More
23m 42s
Recommended Episodes
Sep 2021
Looking Back at 9/11: John Lee Dumas - “I Knew I Was Going to War”
John Lee Dumas, host of the award-winning podcast Entrepreneurs on Fire, joins Tom Fox on the last installment of Looking Back at 9/11 to commemorate the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attack. He tells Tom how his life changed in that pivotal moment, and the big lessons he learned. ... Show More
17m 1s
Sep 2021
Looking Back at 9/11: Scott Moritz - It Changed Overnight
Scott Moritz is Tom Fox’s guest on this episode of Looking Back at 9/11. Scott is the Senior Managing Director at FTI Consulting Risk and Investigations, assisting clients and their outside counsel in managing their response to white collar crime, misconduct and bribery incidents ... Show More
21m 11s
Apr 2025
Rep. Curt Weldon: It’s Time to Finally Tell the Truth About 9-11
After twenty years in congress, Curt Weldon was about to become chairman of the House Armed Services Committee when he publicly questioned the accuracy of the 9-11 report. In retaliation, the Bush administration sent federal agents to his daughter’s house and ended his political ... Show More
1h 32m
Oct 8
Republicans Demand Answers Over Alleged FBI Spying Scandal
Special Counsel Jack Smith’s investigation into the January 6th Capitol riot allegedly had a focus on the communications of eight Republican senators, including Senator Bill Hagerty, who has revealed how the FBI accessed their private messages. United States Senator Bill Hagerty ... Show More
33m 46s
Sep 2021
The Lessons of 9/11
Maria and Julio are joined by Rose Arce, journalist and executive producer at Soledad O’Brien Productions, and a former colleague of Maria’s, for an intimate conversation about their on-the-ground reporting on 9/11. They get into what it was like to cover these events and how it ... Show More
34m 28s
Jun 2025
54. Bin Laden vs the CIA: 9/11 (Ep 4)
On a clear September morning, the American homeland was shattered, revealing a vulnerability unforeseen for nearly two centuries. But, how did Osama bin Laden, soon to become the world's most wanted terrorist, orchestrate the largest mass murder in American history? What was the ... Show More
44m 56s
Sep 23
The 9/11 Files: The CIA’s Secret Mission Gone Wrong | Ep 1
A former FBI agent who was embedded in the CIA’s Bin Laden unit, Mark Rossini, claims the CIA was fully aware that the 9/11 hijackers were in the United States planning an attack. Rather than inform the FBI, the CIA tried to recruit two of the hijackers for a “false-flag” operati ... Show More
26m 30s
Jul 2024
Season 3, Episode 9: Monika Wiesak, America's Last President: What the World Lost When It Lost John F. Kennedy
Join Professor Jeffrey Sachs and Monika Wiesak as they discuss one of America's most iconic leaders in, America's Last President: What the World Lost When It Lost John F. Kennedy. Listen in as they delve into the thrilling saga of a young, audacious visionary who dared ... Show More
40m 22s
Oct 2024
604: Sharon McMahon - A Masterclass In Making American History Fascinating & Fun (Creator of Sharon Says So)
The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com My books: Welcome to Management - https://amzn.to/3XWyZAH  The Pursuit of Excellence - https://amzn.to/4eX9vtP  The Score That Matters - https://amzn.to/3zPub7Z  My guest: After years of serving as ... Show More
1h 7m
Sep 11
The Assassination of Charlie Kirk & The Scourge Of Political Violence
Turning Point USA Founder Charlie Kirk was shot and killed on Wednesday at a conservative activism event held at Utah Valley University. President Trump called this political assassination “a tragedy,” while speaking with FOX’s Bret Baier, the President praised Kirk as “an unbeli ... Show More
32m 55s