35:T53a,

September 1943, and German troops have just landed in gliders to rescue Benito Mussolini from the mountain resort where he was being held. “I knew my friend Adolf Hitler would not desert me,” he said later. But Mussolini died before the end of the war, shot and then strung up with his mistress in Milan.

Who was this man, and is he still relevant today? Nominating him is Professor Margaret MacMillan, not as her hero but as someone she says must not be dismissed as a buffoon. Mussolini founded and led the fascists in Italy, was a brilliant propagandist, and would have probably died in his bed but for the war. Winston Churchill, speaking in 1927, told him his fascist movement "has rendered a service to the entire world."

Only later did he dub him the Italian Miscalculator. Mussolini declared war on Britain just as France was poised to fall.

As well as archive of Mussolini, Churchill, and the Italian journalist Luigi Barzini, the programme features Professor John Foot of Bristol University. Margaret MacMillan is the author of Peacemakers and a former BBC Reith lecturer. The programme is presented by Matthew Parris.

Future great lives in this series include Frida Kahlo, Donna Summer, Hendrick Witbooi and Kenneth Williams of Carry On fame.

The producer in Bristol is Miles Warde

36:T442,We begin at the end… in 1945, with a pile of bodies dumped in Milan then strung up for all to see. Among them, the most powerful man in Italy. One of the most significant figures in modern history. How did it come to this? In this episode, we scroll back to follow the start of Benito Mussolini’s extraordinary rise. From humble origins as the son of a blacksmith and a schoolteacher, Il Duce will emerge as an incendiary journalist and activist. And before long, the onetime vagrant and draft-dodger will be on his way to the front line of World War One… A Noiser production, written by Jeff Dawson. Many thanks to Giulia Albanese, Joshua Arthurs, John Foot, Nicholas O’Shaughnessy, Lisa Pine, Helen Roche. This is Part 1 of 7. Get every episode of Real Dictators a week early with Noiser+. You’ll also get ad-free listening, bonus material and early access to shows across the Noiser network. Click the Noiser+ banner to get started. Or, if you’re on Spotify or Android, go to noiser.com/subscriptions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

190 - Mussolini's Last 10 Days