3d:T43e,

Madonna released her first single in 1982, and in one guise or another she has been with us ever since — ubiquitous but also astonishing, when you consider the usual fleeting arc of pop stardom. How has she done it, and how have her various personae shaped or reflected the culture she inhabits? These are among the questions the renowned biographer Mary Gabriel takes up in her latest book, “Madonna: A Rebel Life,” which casts new light on its subject’s life and career.

On this week’s episode, the host Gilbert Cruz chats with Gabriel about all things Madonna, and revisits the context of the 1980s’ music industry that she conquered.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

3e:T45d,What is fame, really? Is it having a slew of adoring fans? The barista at your café knowing your order? Or is it a complex social construct developed over millennia within the ever-evolving landscape of the human psyche? This week, Taryn and Tiffani take a stab at figuring it out. From a surprise phone call with an R&B legend (casual), to awkward run-ins with influencers at local coffee shops—what actually makes fame feel real? And what might a post-apocalyptic Swiftie vs. Beyoncé war look like? (Spoiler: it involves a laundry cart.) Whether you're a J-lister or an A-lister (both are welcome), this episode is your VIP pass to the glittering, chaotic world of celebrity. -- Thank you to this week’s sponsor, Soapobox! We are obsessed with their body wash, which smells great both in the shower and after the shower. Vanilla Bean Fig is our favorite, SUPER SUDSYYY!!! Check them out at Walmart and other retailers nationwide, or visit soapbox.co and use code wereyourgirls for 30% off your first order valid through 12/31/25. Enjoy, Divas! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices3f:T53c,

Madonna is once again facing controversy. At Sunday's Grammy Awards, the Queen of Pop introduced Sam Smith and Kim Petras for a performance of their hit song "Unholy." But even though Sam and Kim slayed their time on stage, it was Madge's face that stole the show. Social media exploded with criticism about her appearance and speculation about plastic surgery. Of course, Madonna's not taking this lying down - she clapped back at her haters, accusing them of sexism and misogyny. We know that stars can't escape the brutal judgement from the public, but isn't it time we let women like Madonna age however the hell they want?!

Listen ad free with Wondery+. Join Wondery+ for exclusives, binges, early access, and ad free listening. Available in the Wondery App. Support us by supporting our sponsors!

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Encore: The Making of Madonna | Who’s Th...