logo
episode-header-image
Mar 2023
1h 46m

In the Shadow of Extinction with Dan Flo...

Daniel Vitalis
About this episode

Well, it’s finally here. The last interview of the WildFed Podcast. We'll be back next week with our producer Grant to do a final wrap-up, but as far as guest appearances go, who better to take us out than Dan Flores, and on what better topic than his new book, Wild New World. The book is incredible, even, dare we say, required reading for anyone who’s been following the journey of this podcast. It’s not just a history of North America and the animals that live here now — the extant animals — and the ones that were here before — the extinct ones. It’s also the story of the human predator crossing through Beringia and being unleashed on a homonin-naive megafauna assemblage and the impacts that would have here over the proceeding 20,000 years or so. 

It traces its way through the Clovis and Folsom cultures, to the post-ice-age extinction events that led to the great mass of cultures we refer to as Native American, up to the point of contact with European explorers. Then, what follows, as we are all painfully aware, is the Great Dying, which led to the loss of some 80-90% of the indigenous peoples of the continent due to diseases that Europeans had developed significant immunity to but were novel to Native America. And of course, colonization and westward expansion. This then gives way to the most substantial human-induced biomass reduction in known history, the denuding of the land and the commodification of its wildlife — which comes with it several tragic, high-profile extinctions. This part of the book is both compelling and at the same time gruesome and loathsome to read about. It’s truly a blemish on the history of this country and something we are a long way from reconciling still.  

Eventually, this leads to the beginnings of the modern conservation movement, which carries us through to the present day, exploring both its sometimes less-than-savory origins, but also its tremendous wins, like the Endangered Species Act. 

The book walks us through to the very present with some speculation about the future.

When Daniel last spoke to Dan, he'd only read a few chapters, and those were some feel-good pages. He didn’t really understand what was to come or how it would shake him to the core. He didn’t expect it would cause him to reevaluate many of his assumptions or make him audit his own practices and how they relate to this bigger-picture history.

It’s so easy to forget that we live, not as isolated points in space and time, but rather in a continuum. Embedded in a fabric of living history. Without context for what has come before, we can inadvertently focus myopically on where we are now. Conservation is no different. While our methods for wildlife management are light-years ahead of where they were just a century ago, one thing we've learned making this show is there’s still a LONG way to go. It’s far from perfect.

All that said, humans are and always have been — as long as our genus has existed — predators. Not just dietarily, but behaviorally. Those of us that hunt and fish know this in a very intimate way. The idea of giving that up is not really an option for most of us — despite the hopes of the planet’s vegan contingent who believes we can just implement a species-wide dietary experiment on the human population without any malnourishment consequences to ourselves or children. Daniel has been down that road and it leads, in his opinion, off the rails and into nutritional bankruptcy. 

So, it seems to us that we need to learn to balance our needs, wants, and desires as a predatory animal with our needs, wants and desires for intact fauna and healthy ecosystems. No easy task. One that’s not just centuries, but millennia, in the making.

It seems to us that this decade could be characterized by a now hyper-connected and networked human race coming to terms with itself, its past, and its future. Those of us who champion a meaningful ecological trophic connection to wildlife are going to have to do the same. We hope, when the dust settles, we can still hunt, fish, and forage, since as Daniel has stated on this show dozens if not a hundred times — we think this is essentially human. 

Who knows where this all leads, but we're grateful to Dan for this book and the incredible work that must have gone into writing such a sweeping ecological and environmental history. We suspect this one is destined to be a classic. Dan is, no doubt, one of the most important environmental writers of our day, and it’s an honor to have him back on the show — and especially as our final interview. 

As we mentioned earlier, we'll be back next week for one final, more intimate episode of the show. Thank you so much for following along on this journey, for your support, and for your listenership. It has meant the world to us!

Now, here’s our second interview with Dan Flores on his newest book, Wild New World!

View full show notes, including links to resources from this episode here: https://www.wild-fed.com/podcast/173

Up next
Mar 2023
Conclusions, The Final Episode with Daniel Vitalis & Grant Guiliano — WildFed Podcast #174
It's the final episode of The WildFed Podcast, and Daniel and our show producer Grant Guiliano get together to reflect on the last few years of podcasting together, tie a bow on some of the recurring themes we've discussed on the show, as well as look to the future of WildFed. Th ... Show More
1h 55m
Mar 2023
Uncommon Perspectives with A.J. DeRosa — WildFed Podcast #172
A.J. DeRosa is the founder of Project Upland — a multi-media operation that produces, in addition to video and web-based content, a quarterly, subscription-based premium print magazine. He’s also the author of the deer hunting cult-classic, The Urban Deer Complex. An accomplished ... Show More
2h 43m
Mar 2023
The HogFather with Jesse Griffiths — WildFed Podcast #171
If anyone in America is deserving of the illustrious title of HogFather, it's Jesse Griffiths. He’s a hunter, fisherman, cook and co-owner of Dai Due Butcher Shop & Supper Club and New School of Traditional Cookery in Austin Texas. He’s also the author of the Afield, A Chef's Gui ... Show More
1h 9m
Recommended Episodes
Feb 2015
The Ecstatic Hormonal High of Childbearing - Sarah Buckley #35
Dr. Sarah Buckley — GP/family physician, author of the best selling book Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering and mother to four home-born children — shares her passion for natural childbirth and the "beginning of the great love affair" between mother and child. She takes us through th ... Show More
1h 5m
Oct 2023
Freebirth in the Peruvian Jungle
In her former role as a newborn photographer, Laura had witnessed plenty of births before having her own. She intuitively felt that something about the experience, as it occurs for most women, was wrong. When it came time for her to have her own first baby, she chose to have a wi ... Show More
53m 2s
Sep 2023
Giving Birth in a Midwife-Run Hospital
Stephanie shares her two birth stories, both of which took place in a hospital staffed only by midwives, in rural Australia. Her first birth experience cracked her intuition wide open, and she says that it initiated her into the person she was meant to be. Her second birth was a ... Show More
1h 1m
Jan 2024
You Can Choose to Have a Pain-free Birth with Yolande Norris Clark
Yolande Norris-Clark is a leader in the freebirth, birth-freedom, self-healing, and health liberation movements. She is a spell-breaker, way-shower, whistle-blower, trailblazer, and beloved guide to women all over the world who are awakening to the possibility of giving birth in ... Show More
58m 59s
Sep 2023
A Midwife’s Daughter Chooses Freebirth
Milena, the daughter of a licensed German midwife, grew up around babies, pregnancy, discussions about birth, and even attended births with her mom. When it came time for her to give birth the first time, she chose a midwife assisted home birth. But the second time she became pre ... Show More
48m 8s
Jan 2021
Birth
Welcome to the first episode of Mother Tongue. In this episode, three expat mama's Ellis, Jess and Maryanne who make up the Mother Tongue team, discuss their birthing experiences. Maryanne talks us through her 27-hour labour and the advantages of using a tens machine. Ellis ... Show More
1h 21m
Jul 2021
101: Know Your Birthing Options With Lindsey Bliss
In today's episode, I'm talking with doula and co-founder of Carriage House Birth, Lindsey Bliss, about natural birthing options. She shares what a doula is and does, what it's like to work with one, and why it's important to understand your options and rights around birthing. We ... Show More
52m 12s
Feb 2024
"Wir sollten Schwangere mental unterstützen wie Hochleistungssportler"
"Die meisten kennen nur Horrorgeschichten über die Geburt", sagt die Mentaltrainerin Kristin Graf. "Viele assoziieren besonders Klinikgeburten heute automatisch mit Trauma und Gewalt", erzählt auch der ehemalige Chefarzt und Geburtscoach Wolf Lütje. Beide wollen das ändern. Was b ... Show More
1h 26m
Feb 2024
Healing From a Homebirth Transfer
Busy with graduate school, and pregnant with her first child, Christina carefully chose her birth team and planned a to have a home birth. But her birth experience took an unexpected turn when, deep into her labor, her midwife decided they needed to transfer. Her baby was born on ... Show More
56m 33s
Mar 2024
Ep 113: Birth Stories + How Our Perspective On Birth Has Changed
“How do you plan to give birth this time around?” 🤔 We are a few months away from giving birth to baby #4!! And most of the questions we are asked center around how we plan to bring this little one into the world.  We have been through the birthing experience a few times now – f ... Show More
57m 57s