logo
episode-header-image
Nov 2022
4m 57s

Labor: Are People Returning to Work?

MORGAN STANLEY
About this episode

As developed markets heal from the pandemic, labor force participation has recovered in some areas faster than others, so how will a return to work impact the broader economy in places like the U.K. and the U.S.? U.S. Economist Julian Richers and European Economist Markus Guetschow discuss.


----- Transcript -----


Julian Richers: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Julian Richers from the Morgan Stanley U.S. Economics Team. 


Markus Guetschow: And I'm Markus Guetschow from the European Economics Team. 


Julian Richers: On this special episode of the podcast, we'll focus on the issue of labor force participation across developed markets and its broader economic implications. It's Thursday, November 3rd, at 10 a.m. in New York. 


Markus Guetschow: And 3 p.m. in London. 


Markus Guetschow: It's no secret that the COVID pandemic profoundly disrupted labor markets across the globe. Labor shortages, rather than unemployment, have now become the key challenge to economies everywhere, and the 'great resignation' has become a catchphrase. In the U.K. and U.S. in particular, are experiencing a slow recovery in labor participation post-COVID, which is adding to an already complex set of policy trade offs by the Fed and the Bank of England. At the same time, Europe looks like a bright spot. So Julian, 'nobody wants to work anymore' has become a punchline. What kind of picture do the data on labor supply really paint in the U.S.? 


Julian Richers: In the U.S. at least we have seen a massive decline in labor force participation at the onset of the pandemic and really an incomplete recovery so far. Less immigration and more retirements have been major contributors to that drop initially, but since then it also is that prime age workers, so workers age 25 to 54, have been slow to come back. Now in contrast to the U.S., I think your analysis shows that labor supply in the euro area has already fully recovered to pre-pandemic levels. What drove that faster rebound and what's your outlook for the euro area from here? Can we learn something about what this may mean for other countries? 


Markus Guetschow: We've seen a remarkably quick bounce back in the labor market in the euro area after the pandemic recession, with participation already one percentage point above pre-pandemic levels by mid 22, and also about the level implied by pre-crisis trends. We think that furlough schemes that kept workers in the jobs during COVID were a key supporting factor here. We don't expect to return to pre-crisis labor supply growth, however, with increasing headwinds from immigration and demographics increasingly a factor in the euro area. The U.K. had a similarly generous furlough scheme, but dynamics are in many ways more similar to the U.S., with participation almost one percentage point below 4Q 19 levels in the middle of 2022. Post-Brexit migration flows are one obvious reasons, but we also point to a record number of workers out of the labor force due to health reasons. But let me turn back to the U.S. What makes the US labor market so challenging right now, and how would a potential rise in labor supply affect the economic growth outlook and the Fed's monetary policy? 


Julian Richers: Well, really, the U.S. labor market has just remained extremely resilient, even though the overall economy has clearly slowed. The U.S. economy is also now producing a lot more output with about the same amount of workers as we did before the pandemic. So structurally, labor demand is still high. At the same time, a lot of the losses in participation among older workers will not reverse. But prime age workers have been coming back and there is still more room for them to go. So prime age, labor force participation should be increasing and that will be key for some relaxation in the labor market. For the Fed that's key, right? Removing pressure from the labor market is very important to feel more confident about the inflation outlook. Wage growth has been extremely high because there still is a pretty significant shortage of workers, and workers are quitting at high rates to go to higher paying jobs. Now, as the economy slows more and labor demand begins to cool, that should lessen. But really, getting more people into the labor force is just going to be key to see wage growth moderate and the unemployment rate go up for good reasons and not for job cuts. So an expansion in labor supply in particular, if it's coming from more primary workers, is really key to manage a soft landing the Fed is looking for. Marcus, how about the ECB in the Bank of England? Maybe walk us through the thinking there and give us a sense of the outlook for the U.K. and the euro area into 2023. 


Markus Guetschow: So the ECB is facing a different set of issues altogether. Labor market supply is closely monitored, but with rates growth really rather modest to date, despite record low unemployment, much less of a focus for monetary policy. Instead, with rates still arguably in stimulating territory, the near-term focus continues to be on policy normalization, eventually also QT, while fending off concerns about fragmentation. The picture for the Bank of England is somewhat more similar to the one faced by the Fed. The more labor supply bounces back, the less the Bank of England has to lean against demand. With recession ahead and a bearish outlook on participation, most of the slackening will likely be done via the demand channel, however. 


Julian Richers: Marcus, thanks for taking the time to talk. 


Markus Guetschow: Great speaking to you, Julian. 


Julian Richers: And thanks for listening. If you enjoy Thoughts on the Market, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, and share the podcast with a friend or colleague today.

Up next
Yesterday
Bracing for Sticker Shock
As U.S. retailers manage the impacts of increased tariffs, they have taken a number of approaches to avoid raising prices for customers. Our Head of Corporate Strategy Andrew Sheets and our Head of U.S. Consumer Retail and Credit Research Jenna Giannelli discuss whether they can ... Show More
8m 37s
Jul 10
The Future Reckoning of Tariff Escalation
The ultimate market outcomes of President Trump’s tactical tariff escalation may be months away. Our Global Head of Fixed Income Research and Public Policy Strategy Michael Zezas takes a look at implications for investors now.Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcrip ... Show More
3m 52s
Jul 9
Are Foreign Investors Fleeing U.S. Assets?
Our Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Serena Tang discusses whether demand for U.S. stocks has fallen and where fund flows are surging. Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcript -----Serena Tang: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I’m Serena Tang, Morgan Stanley’s Chief ... Show More
4m 56s
Recommended Episodes
Jul 2023
Why Is Unemployment So Low?
On this podcast we keep trying to make sense out of this economy. It is confusing and there are numerous contradictory signals.  On today’s show we are taking a look at why there appears to be a labor shortage. We keep hearing about the so-called labor shortage and politicians an ... Show More
5m 58s
Oct 2023
US Labour market: what's behind unexpected growth?
Employers added 336,000 jobs in September, almost double the 170,000 estimated, according to figures released by the Labor Department. Great news if you're looking for work there, of course, but if you're in the Federal Reserve, America's central bank, and worried about the econo ... Show More
50m 18s
Oct 2023
US Labour market: what's behind unexpected growth?
Employers added 336,000 jobs in September, almost double the 170,000 estimated, according to figures released by the Labor Department. Great news if you're looking for work there, of course, but if you're in the Federal Reserve, America's central bank, and worried about the econo ... Show More
27m 11s
Feb 2023
Jan Toporowski Explains Why Capitalists Dislike Full Employment
In the wake of the Great Financial Crisis, the work of John Maynard Keynes experienced a revival, as people sought answers to the problem of sluggish growth. In this cycle, sluggish growth isn't the problem. If anything, you hear business leaders and central bankers talking about ... Show More
37m 39s
Jun 2023
The Fed's Last and Final Rate Increase
Oh today’s show we are talking about the current macro economic climate and provide a forecast for interest rates for the second half of this year.  The fact is that we live in an interconnected world and the attempts by central bankers to look at the economic conditions within a ... Show More
5m 51s
Jun 2022
Why Inflation's Fallout Is Becoming Increasingly Global
US inflation is at a 40-year high and the UK is effectively in recession as demand slows for Chinese-made goods. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, though addressing the British economy, could have been speaking for the whole world when he said in a recent interview that “we’re going ... Show More
24m 56s
Aug 2023
Unemployment falls even as job gains ease
Nonfarm payrolls come in light with down revisions but the jobless rate falls to 3.5%. (0:12) Fortinet (FTNT) stock hammered. (3:03) Why it may be too soon to throw in the recession towel. (4:00) Read a transcxript of this esisode at Seeking Alpha. Show Notes: U.S. jobs growth in ... Show More
5m 19s