logo
episode-header-image
Apr 2021
1h 22m

Your Success Probably Didn’t Come From M...

NEW YORK TIMES OPINION
About this episode

Prepping for a conversation with Tressie McMillan Cottom is intimidating. McMillan Cottom is a sociologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, a 2020 MacArthur fellow, co-host of the podcast “Hear to Slay,” and the author of the essay collection “Thick,” which was a National Book Award finalist. And she’s one of those people who can seemingly write on anything: The way for-profit colleges generate inequality, the cultural meaning of Dolly Parton, the way the U.S. medical profession treats Black women, how beauty operates in contemporary America, the role of hustle in the economy — the list just keeps going.

And so did this conversation, in the end. I barely made it through a third of my planned questions because so many interesting topics came up in each answer. We discuss the dangers of nostalgia, the social construction of smartness, the moral panics gripping America, why journalists are racing to platforms like Substack, how different mediums of communication shape our conversations, the central role status plays in American life, her research on the root causes of the uptick in “deaths of despair,” how beauty is constructed and wielded and much, much more. This is one of those conversations that could’ve gone on for four more hours.

I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

Recommendations:

"Minor Feelings" by Cathy Park Hong

"Fearing the Black Body" by Sabrina Strings

"The Chosen" by Jerome Karabel

"Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry" by Mildred Taylor

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Rogé Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.

Up next
Yesterday
How the Attention Economy Is Devouring Gen Z — and the Rest of Us
Donald Trump and Zohran Mamdani are both proof of how the ability to capture attention is power. And the attention economy isn’t reshaping just politics; it’s also reshaping the actual economy: the crypto market, A.I. venture capital, and how people, especially Gen Z, are making ... Show More
1h 5m
Jul 2
The Disaster That Just Passed the Senate
President Trump’s “big, beautiful bill” is a bad piece of legislation. It includes trillions of dollars in tax cuts that are very much tilted toward the rich, along with savage cuts to Medicaid, nutrition assistance and green energy.And on Tuesday, July 1, the Senate passed it in ... Show More
1h 11m
Jun 28
Mamdani, Trump and the End of the Old Politics
Zohran Mamdani created a new anti-establishment playbook — in his use of social video, his focus on affordability and his position on Israel. His assumed victory in New York City’s Democratic mayoral primary, trouncing the former governor Andrew Cuomo, was one of the biggest poli ... Show More
1h 24m
Recommended Episodes
Jul 2022
#287 — Why Wealth Matters
Sam Harris speaks with Morgan Housel about the psychology of money and investing. They discuss how personal history shapes one’s view of economic risk, the implications of not understanding the future, being rich vs being wealthy, how we measure success, the problem of social com ... Show More
50m 15s
Jun 2023
The Black & White of Feminism with Rachel Cargle
It’s another week of our illuminating For the Love of Being Seen and Heard series. We’re talking to people that are doing the life-changing work of helping each other see and hear each other–to see and hear communities that we are not a part of, to see and hear voices that have b ... Show More
1h 1m
Jan 2021
WHY WE NEED TO DREAM – Award-Winning Author Gary Younge on MLK, Inequality and Race
A remarkable conversation with a great thinker and giant of journalism who has covered the great stories of our time. We ask what can be learnt from MLK about the fight against inequality? What holds back change and what is the role of journalism? How can America heal under Biden ... Show More
28m 47s
May 2023
Documentary #15: The Myth of Freedom Under Capitalism
Although its intellectual handmaidens love to insist otherwise — capitalism is not a system that truly embodies freedom. We all feel it, of course — that nagging sense that we lack any agency over the choices that shape our lives, the frustration we feel at our bosses, the tensio ... Show More
1h 39m
Nov 2021
Brené Brown: Matt and Chris courageously embrace their vulnerability
Brené Brown is an American professor, lecturer, author, storyteller researcher, and podcast host. She's made it her life's work to help people rise strong, brave the wilderness, and dare to lead - all through overcoming shame and embracing their own vulnerability.So naturally Chr ... Show More
2h 10m
Dec 2019
The moral philosophy of The Good Place (with Mike Schur and Pamela Hieronymi)
After creating and running Parks and Recreation and writing for The Office, Michael Schur decided he wanted to create a sitcom about one of the most fundamental questions of human existence: What does it mean to be a good person? That’s how The Good Place was born.Soon into the s ... Show More
1h 44m
Apr 2021
Why Is Our Economy So … White? (with Heather McGhee)
This week, author Heather McGhee breaks down the driving force of American economic exclusion via the swimming pool. Baratunde asks Heather about all she has learned traveling across the country to write her book, The Sum of Us. They explore the roots of wealth inequality, the tr ... Show More
46m 46s
Nov 2023
Raquel Willis: Leading the Transition Toward Equality
In this episode of Remarkable People, join host Guy Kawasaki as he engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Raquel Willis, a trailblazing Black transgender activist, writer, media strategist, and speaker. Together, they dive into Raquel's journey in the LGBTQ and racial j ... Show More
1h 1m