At the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, European leaders painted the battle in stark moral terms, imposing harsh sanctions against Russia and talking about President Volodymyr Zelensky as a hero.
But as the war drags on, different conversations have taken place behind the scenes to consider what Ukraine might need to give up to achieve peace.
Guest: Matina Stevis-Gridneff, the Brussels bureau chief for The New York Times.
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