logo
episode-header-image
Sep 2021
2m 51s

Michael Zezas: Will the Democrats Go Big...

MORGAN STANLEY
About this episode

The eventual size of the Democratic Party’s fiscal policy legislation – for taxes and for spending – will likely impact the bond market as well as the policy landscape.


----- Transcript -----

Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Michael Zezas, Head of Public Policy Research and Municipal Strategy for Morgan Stanley. Along with my colleagues, bringing you a variety of perspectives, I'll be talking about the intersection between US public policy and financial markets. It's Wednesday, September 29th at 1:00 p.m. in New York.

 

It's shaping up to be one of the most consequential legislative weeks on record in the US. At stake is the size and fate of Democrats' fiscal policy ambitions, specifically their goals of a major tax increase to fund a substantial expansion of infrastructure spending and the social safety net. But intraparty disagreements on the content of these efforts have left investors wondering: what will the final package do to the U.S. fiscal outlook and, therefore, the trajectory for bond yields? Will the Democrats go big, keeping yields moving higher, or go small, potentially meaning the worst of the recent increase in bond yields is behind us?

 

Our current thinking is that the Democrats eventually end up going big. Why? Because neither of the two legislative vehicles they're considering are possible without the other - they're linked. Moderates, particularly in the Senate, may be happy with approving the smaller bipartisan infrastructure framework, or BIF. But progressives don't appear content with just this achievement and continue to argue they'll withhold their votes on the BIF until the whole of the party endorses a specific plan for the bigger budget reconciliation bill. This de facto linking of the two bills may mean that Democrats' planned votes this week to pass the BIF gets delayed, but it keeps the party on track for what we think would be a combined increase in spending of over $3T over 10 years, adding upwards of $1T to the deficit over the first five years. That would help keep support under the economic recovery and the upward trajectory of bond yields over the medium term. It could also mean equity markets are choppy in the near term as they digest a meaningful incoming tax hike.

 

But breaking that link and going small is something we have to consider too. If progressives give in and vote for the BIF without a dependable agreement on reconciliation, the moderates will be in the driver's seat on the rest of the negotiation - and already key moderate Democratic leaders have said they'd delay the timing and dilute the size of the reconciliation bill. In that case, we'd substantially mark down our expectations for the impact to deficits, as well as for the scope of tax hikes. For this outcome to become more likely, look for a public signal from the White House to persuade progressives to vote for the BIF by explicitly endorsing the strategy of voting on it before reconciliation is agreed to.

 

We hope this can be a guide to track how the situation develops over the next few days. And we’ll of course be paying close attention and be back next week to size it all up again.

 

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the show, please share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more people find the show.

Up next
Yesterday
Are Foreign Investors Fleeing U.S. Assets?
Our Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Serena Tang discusses whether demand for U.S. stocks has fallen and where fund flows are surging. Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcript -----Serena Tang: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I’m Serena Tang, Morgan Stanley’s Chief ... Show More
4m 56s
Jul 8
How AI Is Disrupting Defense
Arushi Agarwal from the European Sustainability Strategy team and Aerospace & Defense Analyst Ross Law unpack what a reshaped defense industry means for sustainability, ethics and long-term investment strategy.Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcript -----Ross Law: ... Show More
9m 33s
Jul 7
Have U.S. Consumers Shaken Off Tariff Concerns?
The American consumer isn’t simply pulling back. They are changing the way they spend – and save. Our U.S. Thematic and Equity Strategist Michelle Weaver digs into the data. Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.----- Transcript -----Michelle Weaver: Welcome to Thoughts on the M ... Show More
4m 15s
Recommended Episodes
Jan 2023
What will it cost Dems to raise the debt ceiling?
The Biden administration and House Republicans are already in a potentially months-long standoff over raising the national debt ceiling.  The Treasury Department started to enact “extraordinary measures” this week in order to keep paying the federal government’s bills after hitti ... Show More
50m 28s
Nov 2022
Breaking Down the U.S. Midterm Elections: What’s Next for Policy, Markets and Economic Growth
As the voting continues from the U.S. midterm elections, the results so far indicate a status quo in country’s political divisions. But what does a divided Congress mean for policy, markets and economic growth? In the latest episode of Exchanges at Goldman Sachs, Goldman Sachs Re ... Show More
27m 18s
Oct 2023
Spending cuts aren’t the only answer to the budget deficit
There’s been a lot of talk about the ever-growing U.S. federal deficit lately. That discussion has largely revolved around spending cuts. But the flip side of the issue— that is, increasing revenue — is largely ignored. We’ll get into what increasing the government’s revenue coul ... Show More
15m 37s
Oct 2023
20VC Roundtable: Are IPOs Back? Is Growth Dead? What Does it Take to Raise a Growth Round Today? How Do VCs Solve The Liquidity Challenge? Will We See a Massive Resetting of Valuations? AI Hype Growth
Deven Parekh is a Managing Director at Insight Partners, one of the leading investing franchises of the last 25 years. Deven has made more than 90 investments since joining in 2000 including in the likes of Twitter, Alibaba, JD.com, Chargebee and Automattic (WordPress) to name a ... Show More
50m 42s
May 2023
Progress on the Debt Ceiling, Deere Earnings on Tap, and Bonds vs. Stocks 5/19/23
While President Biden is in Japan for the G7 conference, the White House says Democratic negotiators are making progress in their debt ceiling talks. Raymond James’ Ed Mills explains the latest. Plus, Deere reports earnings this morning, offering insight into the state of the eco ... Show More
44m 56s
May 2023
Unraveling America's Dance With a Debt-Ceiling Disaster
The US debt ceiling is all anyone in Washington (and increasingly elsewhere) can talk about these days. For months, politicians have been in a stalemate triggered by Republican demands for spending cuts as the price for paying America's debts. With next week seen as the point at ... Show More
34m 38s
Feb 2023
Stocks See-Saw Post Powell, and Waging War on Wealth 2/7/23
Major indexes closed near their highs of the day, after Fed chair Jerome Powell said he’s seeing signs of disinflation in the economy. But is this the green light the markets have been waiting for? Plus President Biden expected to take on corporate tax rates and share buybacks at ... Show More
44 m
Oct 2023
Fiscal Or Monetary Dominance
On today show we are looking at a tug-of-war that is underway in the financial markets. There is also a competition for capital between government and private enterprise. For the moment it appears as though government is winning that battle for dollars. We have an economy that is ... Show More
5m 8s
Oct 2021
Why Spending Too Little Could Backfire on Democrats
When Democrats first set out to expand the social safety net, they envisioned a piece of legislation as transformational as what the party has achieved in the 1960s. In the process, they hoped that they’d win back the working-class voters the party had since lost.But now that the ... Show More
23m 52s