logo
episode-header-image
Jun 2021
1h 2m

A More Perfect Union

The New York Times
About this episode

“The Engagement,” by Sasha Issenberg, recounts the complex and chaotic chain reaction that thrust same-sex marriage from the realm of conservative conjecture to the top of the gay political agenda and, eventually, to the halls of the Supreme Court. On this week’s podcast, Issenberg talks about the deeply researched book, which covers 25 years of legal and cultural history.

“What they have done, ultimately,” he says of those who won the victory, “is helped to enshrine, both in the legal process and in American culture, a sense that marriage is a unique institution. And the language they used to talk about it — about love and commitment — is so particular, I think, to the dynamic between two people that in a certain respect marriage is a more central institution in American life now than it was 30 years ago, because we went through this political fight over it.”

J. Hoberman visits the podcast to discuss his piece about 10 books that, taken together, tell the story of Hollywood. He talks, among other subjects, about why the only celebrity memoir on his list is “Lulu in Hollywood,” by Louise Brooks, who acted in the 1920s and ’30s and published her memoir much later in life.

“She was a remarkably cleareyed observer of what was going on,” Hoberman says, “and embarked on the whole star-making thing with a healthy degree of ambivalence. So she’s able to write about herself and about the conditions under which movies were made and the people she met in Hollywood and so on, in a way that’s both personal and detached. There aren’t too many other memoirs like this.”

Also on this week’s episode, Alexandra Alter has news from the publishing world; Tina Jordan looks back at Book Review history as it celebrates its 125th anniversary; and Elisabeth Egan and Andrew LaVallee talk about what they’ve been reading. Pamela Paul is the host.

Here are the books discussed in this week’s “What We’re Reading”:

“Libertie” by Kaitlyn Greenidge

“Malibu Rising” by Taylor Jenkins Reid

“On Juneteenth” by Annette Gordon-Reed

Up next
Jun 27
Book Club: Let's Talk About 'Mrs. Dalloway" at 100
“Mrs. Dalloway said she would buy the flowers herself”: So reads one of the great opening lines in British literature, the first sentence of Virginia Woolf’s classic 1925 novel, “Mrs. Dalloway.”The book tracks one day in the life of an English woman, Clarissa Dalloway, living in ... Show More
42m 38s
Jun 20
A.O. Scott on the Joy of Close Reading Poetry
On this week's episode, A.O. Scott joins host Gilbert Cruz to talk about the value of close reading poetry. And New York Times Book Review poetry editor Greg Cowles recommends four recently published collections worth reading.Books mentioned in this episode* "New and Collected He ... Show More
33m 55s
Jun 14
50 Years After ‘Jaws’ Terrified Filmgoers, a Reporter Looks Back
Steven Spielberg’s movie “Jaws” hit theaters 50 years ago this month, in June 1975, and became a phenomenon almost instantly. In some ways that was no surprise: The Peter Benchley novel it was based on, also called “Jaws,” had been a huge best seller the year before, and the publ ... Show More
37m 24s
Recommended Episodes
Sep 2023
Lisa Jewell
This week, Georgina Godwin meets bestselling British novelist Lisa Jewell. The Londoner started out working in the pattern room at fashion chain Warehouse but, after taking creative-writing classes, she realised that she wanted to be an author. It was a bet with a friend while on ... Show More
27m 4s
Dec 2023
The Year of the Doll
In the highest-grossing movie of 2023, Barbie, a literal doll, leaves the comforts of Barbieland and ventures into real-world Los Angeles, where she discovers the myriad difficulties of modern womanhood. This arc from cosseted naïveté to feminist awakening is a narrative throughl ... Show More
45m 46s
Feb 2024
Un-Marry Me!
We’re kicking off our new season this Valentine’s Day with a story from a Modern Love veteran.David Finch has written three Modern Love essays about how hard he has worked to be a good husband to his beloved wife, Kristen. As a man with autism who married a neurotypical woman, he ... Show More
27m 5s
Mar 2024
The New Coming-of-Age Story
For centuries, the bildungsroman, or novel of education, has offered a window into a formative period of life—and, by extension, into the historical moment in which it’s set. Vinson Cunningham sent the draft of “Great Expectations,” a book loosely based on his experience on Barac ... Show More
50m 1s
Apr 2019
#197 Elizabeth Day: The Myth Of Shiny Success
Elizabeth Day is an author, journalist and broadcaster. She has written 4 critically aclaimed novels, including The Party which was a Richard and Judy bookclub pick. Elizabeth is a currently columnist for You magazine on the Mail on Sunday and a feature writer for numerous public ... Show More
39m 56s
Sep 2023
Neil Blackmore
British author Neil Blackmore’s third novel, ‘The Intoxicating Mr Lavelle’, was shortlisted for the Polari Prize for LGBT+ fiction, while his 2021 novel, ‘The Dangerous Kingdom of Love’, was included in ‘The Times’ list of the best historical fiction. He speaks to Georgina Godwin ... Show More
25m 41s
Sep 2023
Gael García Bernal and Gay Lucha Libre
This week, Dana and Stephen are once again joined by Kat Chow, author of the memoir Seeing Ghosts. The panel begins by jumping into the ring with Cassandro, the oddly conflict-adverse biopic about the lucha libre superstar and exótico gay icon, Saúl Armendáriz, who is played terr ... Show More
58m 35s
Feb 2024
Three Powerful Lessons About Love
When Daniel Jones started the Modern Love column in 2004, he opened the call for submissions and hoped the idea would catch on. Twenty years later, over a thousand Modern Love essays have been published in The New York Times, and the column is a trove of real-life love stories.Da ... Show More
35m 50s
Feb 2022
That's Marriage by Edna Ferber
Marriage takes the simple concept of procreation and turns it into a lifelong commitment that can, at times, lead to unexpected anger and resentment. As Mark Twain once said, "God's great cosmic joke on the human race was requiring that men and women live together in marriage.” A ... Show More
57m 23s
Mar 2023
George Eliot and married life
George Eliot was a leading novelist who scandalised Victorian society by eloping to Germany with a married man and living in unlawful conjugal bliss. She dedicated her books to ‘her husband’ and wrote of 'this double life, which helps me to feel and think with double strength'. T ... Show More
41m 55s